Mysterious 'Oxidation' On Peace Dollar
GreyOwlStudio
Posts: 5 ✭
Can anyone tell me what might be going on with this coin? There's some weird oxidation in a ring around the edge that goes from orange to brown to blue-green. If it weren't for the blue-green color, I wouldn't be suspicious, but green oxidation usually means copper. My dad bought this coin. It's certified by PCI, which also makes me suspicious. I've told him not to buy graded coins from anyone but PCGS and NCG, but he's 87 and stubborn as a mule and thinks he knows what he's doing, so I can't stop him. He paid $145 for it. Did he get had?
If it's not a totally fake coin, I guess my best bet is to send it off to PCGS and have them crack it open and regrade it.
Thanks for your help.
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Real coin, artificial toning.
Might've been in a bank roll at some point.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Even if it was caused by the holder, the toning looks questionable and my guess is that it would be a waste of money to send the coin elsewhere for a grading opinion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Same toning on my Ike dollar.
PCGS's conclusion is an accurate one.
peacockcoins
Your Dad is wasting money just like my father- in- law did with the crap he bought.
exposed ender coin reacting with paper rolled over it edges. Note the lack of toning on the reverse. Coin doctors can't resist doing both sides.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
This toned very similar to the way that silver eagles that have sat in albums do. However, this is not a silver eagle. Peace dollars are 90% silver rather than 99% silver and they were also treated with a chemical during the minting process that prevents toning. That's why Peace Dollars do not tone as nicely as Morgans. From my limited experience in identifying artificial toning, I want to say that this is genuine, but I've never seen a straight graded peace dollar tone like this. It's pretty rare for Peace dollars to naturally tone dramatic colors like this.
I never heard of Peace dollars being treated by the US Mint with a chemical to prevent toning. What was the chemical used?
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You will notice that a very large percentage of PCI slabbed silver coins have identical rim toning on the obverse and very few have any on the reverse. I’m thinking it’s possibly the material in the slab that holds the coin…..???
That certainly sounds plausible. But even if so, I think it would still be deemed “questionable color”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not sure if AT vs NT from the slab, and grade seems way too high, but a better date and if a true MS62-63, the $145 paid is in the ballpark for fair price. Plus the toning can be dipped off, or rather the coin can be conserved if required.
This is 100% toning from the PCI slab itself. Take a search of PCI graded coins and see similar colors and patterns. I saw a dealer at a show in the last year that had hundreds of PCI graded coins in stock, and they all looked very similar to each other. The color progression here starts at a yellow, then ends at a deep staining purple with few vivid colors in between.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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I would agree….and here is a few recent coins in auctions with most in PCI holders…..
That is not toning caused by that specific pci slab. It is unquestionably artificially toned prior to being placed in that slab.
Is the nauseating cloudy brown haze exclusive to the green label holders?
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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I don't know what you are referring to. Can you clarify?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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I've seen some at shows but don't own any. However, @ldhair posted this one recently:
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Agree, the old PCI holders (Gen. 1 and 2) were known to "naturally" tone coins most likely due to something in the holder/label. However, the example shown above is a newer iteration of PCI and was almost assuredly artificially toned prior to being slabbed. The coin has also probably been cleaned and is over graded by several points.
Philippians 4:4-7
That is an older PCI slab, probably a Gen. 1 or 2, but I can't say for sure without seeing the back of the label. They were known to tone coins in this way.
Philippians 4:4-7
I'm not sure what chemicals exactly were used but they were some combination of acids and salts. The process is called depletion gilding (aka surface enrichment.) Depletion gilding is used most commonly on silver and gold and causes the outer layer of the planchet to be a much higher purity of silver than the inside of the planchet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depletion_gilding
I've seen that seller's stuff as well. MOST of the Morgans I saw were super sketchy color. Pulling some of the better images out into other tools to increase the contrast of the tone, many had obvious signs of AT. For example, completely even toning around the letters and stars and some with liquid "spots" when you jack the contrast up.
Even a bankroll tone ring will not evenly spread across every letter, device, and field. When it's a "high dollar coin" with a sketchy tone... that immediately makes me suspect counterfeit as well.
100%
peacockcoins
Lots of great comments, everyone. Thanks!
For those commenting on the grading, here are some better closeup photos to examine. I'm inclined to agree, but it's useful to remember than grading is based more on circulation wear and the quality of the strike than scratches or dings. My thought however is that this coin is more in the MS62-64 range.
I would guess MS-61 and the "toning" was artificially created prior to encapsulation.
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
I have to say my first thought when my dad showed it to me was "ugh!" I really don't like the toning. I don't think it looks natural at all, nor attractive. More kind of like the coin got contaminated.
Actually the coin was a nice red when PCI graded it for me. I watched the coin tone over the years.
Your Indian cent is in the older green pci holder which does have a history of causing coins to tone within the holder.
Like this peace $ that indicates 100% white when holdered.
In a mint state grade, you have no wear to grade by, so scratches and dings are the only reference point!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
Most of the silver coins in PCI holders have the same exact coloring and appearance. To make this clear, yall believe every single PCI silver coin was artificially toned identically before being graded by PCI? Impossible.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I agree….and even though I have bought a few raw coins from them, I find the grading seems to leave a lot to the imagination. I try to enlarge ‘UNC’ coins that you can barely read the date on…lol
I'm not sure how people feel about toned coins in PCI slabs now but at one time it was thought the label was causing the toning. I still have a lot of these slabs. Only a few have changed at all over the years.
I once knew a jeweler/coin dealer that toned the rims of Silver Eagles with bright colors. They looked pretty but over time the toning turned really dark. These were raw coins.
The question you should really ask is, do you believe every single coin (which is a lot apparently) in those newer pci holders will tone exactly the same with the exact same colors naturally. Now that would be impossible.
My "100%" was in agreement with the post I copy/pasted.
peacockcoins
This coin was never in a holder. Toning is mostly pushed towards the outer edge, as the coin roll effect .
Sounds logical to me.
That's a really weak mintmark.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
If there is an active substance in the PCI containment material that touches the coin, then it would tone similar because each coin is exposed to the same environment. Air movement, exposure, and chemical makeup is exactly the same, so it absolutely makes sense that the colors stay consistent.
Instead, your hypothesis is that every submitter of a silver PCI coin had artificially toned their coins identically before submitting to PCI.
This does not need to be explained further.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
PCI went through multiple owners over the years. The PCI example shown by the OP wasn't really a TPG, more of a basement slabber or FPG.
Edited to add: The last/latest owner of PCI artificially toned many of their coins to mimic the "natural" toning of the oldest/earliest green PCI slabs. In the early days PCI was a legitimate TPG, but not anymore.
Philippians 4:4-7
QC… but looks like PCI slab toning agreed
So are you saying this quasi-TPG slabbed their own coins to grade and sell. If I sent in a blast while coin and it returned with this brown ring I wouldn't be happy. A TPG should never be able to grade their own coins. Wow, what did you mean by FPG?
FPG is First Party Grader (they grade their own coins). PCI has had 8 or 9 different owners over the years. When they first started out with the photo slabs and original green label slabs they were a legitimate TPG. You can find some really nice coins for good deals in the early slabs if you know what to look for, because most people turn their nose up. However, after being sold multiple times it turned into a scam. One of the subsequent owners was actually sued and lost for ripping people off (Paul Montgomery helped testify as an expert witness).
If you want to learn more about PCI's history check out @86Saab's website oldslabholders.com and read all about it.
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