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1978 Yount question.

Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 411 ✭✭✭

The auction for this Yount is ending tonight. The current high bid is $112.50 with 23 bids. The card is raw and graded by the seller as NM-MT + and if submitted to PSA would most likely receive a PSA 8. For the sake of discussion let's say it would receive a PSA 9. PSA 9's usually sell for under $50. Why would collectors pay over $100 for a card they can purchase for half the price in a PSA 9 holder. If someone is going to say that some collectors don't like cards in a slab I understand that. Why not buy the better condition card in a PSA 9 holder and crack it out and save $50 + dolllars.

I see this type of bidding consistently with Greg Morris cards. It should be noted that this particular card is not a Greg Morris auction.

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Comments

  • bgrbgr Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The diamond cut on that card makes my eyes sore. I can’t explain the Greg Morris phenomenon either but I enjoy watching some of the auctions. Sometimes I even bid cards up for sport. Occasionally I get stuck with one.

  • zorbaca also has a very devoted bunch of buyers. He does raw set breaks every week on schedule, usually sets from the 70s. I've had decent dealings with the seller in the past. Also, please take note that only 2 people are bidding on the card you've posted. They're going mano-a-mano over it for whatever reason, but the assessment that they might be overzealously bidding is on point.

    Gobble.

  • pab1969pab1969 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's an ugly card.

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It doesn't make any sense, but you can see it was two morons going at it. Now if they paid, that would be something!

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 390 ✭✭✭

    I send thousands of cards to him every other month. Crazy good prices

  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 411 ✭✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    I send thousands of cards to him every other month. Crazy good prices

    Zorbaca or Greg Morris?

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,687 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A fool and his money...



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would say that the person with 149 feedback is bidding on their own card perhaps.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • The unexplainable nature of human behavior filters itself through this hobby like nothing else. So many times we have witnessed these battles over a silly little piece of cardboard. There's a gap in the notebook and it needs to be filled. Whatever it takes.

    Gobble.

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 78 Yount is a probably PSA 5 - 6 at best. Stupidity is surely the large natural resource in the USA.

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    that is not a 3 figure card

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • @craig44 said:
    that is not a 3 figure card

    Nor 2.

    Gobble.

  • Looks like the underbidder for the OP's card above was also at GMC 2 days prior and won the card for the same price.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Topps-Set-Break-173-Robin-Yount-NM-MT-OR-BETTER-GMCARDS/315807701844?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2349526.m43663.l10137

    Gobble.

  • I smell hijinks.

    Gobble.

  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭

    "The Greg Morris Phenomenon" - where a raw card sells for a lot more than an already-graded example of the same grade.

    As someone building raw sets from the 70s - and who would generally prefer to keep them raw - this is something that has always been really interesting to observe.

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • GrooGroo Posts: 216 ✭✭✭

    @mcastaldi said:
    "The Greg Morris Phenomenon" - where a raw card sells for a lot more than an already-graded example of the same grade.

    As someone building raw sets from the 70s - and who would generally prefer to keep them raw - this is something that has always been really interesting to observe.

    PT Barnum would have feasted on those like them

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mcastaldi said:
    "The Greg Morris Phenomenon" - where a raw card sells for a lot more than an already-graded example of the same grade.

    As someone building raw sets from the 70s - and who would generally prefer to keep them raw - this is something that has always been really interesting to observe.

    If I told you I made $150,000 a year for 40 years and then I tell you my net worth is $150 Million -- sounds impossible right, it is. Selling 1978 raw Robin Yount's for over $20 sounds impossible right, it is.

    These items don't "JUST" happen without "MANIPULATIONS".

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • Imagining many people digging through their stash of 78s looking for this card, myself included. I examined 3 Robins from my sets and they all look like 4-figure cards.

    So I whooped and hollered to my wife "Look here mama, thar's GOLD in tham thar monster boxes!!!!!" :D

    Gobble.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 390 ✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2024 3:10PM

    GM does get premium dollars on the raw cards. I send them cards 5-6 times a year and the value has to be over $5000 total for each consignment. They do reject 10-15% of what’s sent. I’ve gotten crazy prices for 74 Topps Football commons in the $40 each range and not 1 but a dozen. Raw stars bring graded card value if not higher. The fees are steep but well worth it. This year over $50000 on cards that would take me 20 yrs to sell raw individually. I believe with over 6000 cards he sold for me this year only 15 were returned by the buyer or not paid for. He’s a valuable asset for selling raw cards especially now with PSA costs so high for commons.
    I will say on average , cards older than 1963 do the best especially 53s and 59s. I had great success with the ones I sent him this year.
    I’m working on another consignment this week

  • @Harnessracing said:
    GM does get premium dollars on the raw cards. I send them cards 5-6 times a year and the value has to be over $5000 total for each consignment. They do reject 10-15% of what’s sent. I’ve gotten crazy prices for 74 Topps Football commons in the $40 each range and not 1 but a dozen. Raw stars bring graded card value if not higher. The fees are steep but well worth it. This year over $50000 on cards that would take me 20 yrs to sell raw individually. I believe with over 6000 cards he sold for me this year only 15 were returned by the buyer or not paid for. He’s a valuable asset for selling raw cards especially now with PSA costs so high for commons.
    I will say on average , cards older than 1963 do the best especially 53s and 59s. I had great success with the ones I sent him this year.
    I’m working on another consignment this week

    Pretty much the same recipe for what we accomplished with GMC last year. A few returns, but overall well worth the time and effort. I had the advantage of being able to hand deliver my orders as I don't live too far from their HQ.

    I saw those 74 Topps FB at auction with the knowledge that some are very difficult to find in high grade. Tempting. But, those prices! :o

    Gobble.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 390 ✭✭✭

    I had them listed on EBay for $3-4 each and never got a sniff. Also had dozens of 59s that went in the $40-$70 range. Also listed and never a sniff.

  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭

    That's really interesting. Just curious. . .can you provide the fee breakdown on consignments with GMC?

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mcastaldi said:
    That's really interesting. Just curious. . .can you provide the fee breakdown on consignments with GMC?

    It looks like for vintage non-graded cards, Greg Morris keeps 50 cents per card plus 25% of the hammer price. Seems steep but I too have done well in the past consigning with them.

    Daniel
  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 6:26AM

    When you consider the costs of listing everything, managing payments, packing, etc.
    All things considered, that's not horrible at all. Esp for the premiums his auctions for raw cards seem to command.

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 411 ✭✭✭

    Can anyone explain why GM often receives more for a raw NM-MT card then what a collector would spend on the same card in a PSA 8 holder? Again for the collectors that don't want their cards in slabs they could purchase the PSA 8 which should be accurately graded and break it out of the slab. They would then have a better condition card and be secure that the card has not been trimmed or played with.

    If this situation was an anomaly it would not matter much but I see it consistently and I don't understand the logic behind it. I pretty much collect the cards I purchased as a kid - Topps Baseball 75-79 - and I consistently see raw hall of famers in NM-MT condition sell for MORE than what the same card sells for in a PSA 9 holder. The cards that are being sold would most likely receive a 7 or 8 if submitted to PSA.

  • mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Yankees70 said:
    Can anyone explain why GM often receives more for a raw NM-MT card then what a collector would spend on the same card in a PSA 8 holder? Again for the collectors that don't want their cards in slabs they could purchase the PSA 8 which should be accurately graded and break it out of the slab. They would then have a better condition card and be secure that the card has not been trimmed or played with.

    If this situation was an anomaly it would not matter much but I see it consistently and I don't understand the logic behind it. I pretty much collect the cards I purchased as a kid - Topps Baseball 75-79 - and I consistently see raw hall of famers in NM-MT condition sell for MORE than what the same card sells for in a PSA 9 holder. The cards that are being sold would most likely receive a 7 or 8 if submitted to PSA.

    yes...raw appreciation over graded makes no sense to me, either.

    mint_only_pls
  • Try, as hard as you can, to wrap yourself around the idea that NOT EVERYONE knows about graded cards or cares. They don't care about third party graders or the conjecture about pricing, slabs, value, etc. They just want the card. I know there are situations where people are "tampering" with values. That much has been discussed ad nauseam. However, there's another part of the world that some people just don't bother to visit. Raw collecting has taken off in the past 10 to 15 years. It's a fact. We must accept it for what it is. Those of us who want to take advantage of a great opportunity can do just that.

    Gobble.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not buying that one MAGO. 1978 PSA 9 Yount's sell for less than $50. The chances at this point of picking up a raw 1978 off ebay and getting a PSA 10 are probably 1 in 10,000. maybe more.

    One could just buy a nice centered 9, remove it and include it in their raw set.

    And the fact that a person doesn't know about grading and/or there values seems like a stab in the dark remark. Not trying to sound harsh to you at all. If it looks a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. I think for this particular event, the card price was manipulated.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • @olb31 said:
    Not buying that one MAGO. 1978 PSA 9 Yount's sell for less than $50. The chances at this point of picking up a raw 1978 off ebay and getting a PSA 10 are probably 1 in 10,000. maybe more.

    One could just buy a nice centered 9, remove it and include it in their raw set.

    And the fact that a person doesn't know about grading and/or there values seems like a stab in the dark remark. Not trying to sound harsh to you at all. If it looks a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. I think for this particular event, the card price was manipulated.

    You must have missed the part where I said this: I know there are situations where people are "tampering" with values.

    You're focusing on an anomaly and trying to perceive it as the norm. It isn't. I'm have no argument for the fact people are messing with prices all over the place. I sold off a hoard of stuff last year and very few cards caused me to have suspicion of this method of tampering. I watched carefully because I didn't want to be a part of that. We can speculate over why things happen, but the facts don't lie. The majority of cards that pass through GMC do so legitimately.

    Gobble.

  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 411 ✭✭✭

    I did not miss that part and I don't think that "tampering" with the bidding is happening that much with the sales I'm discussing. My main question is I'm seeing ample raw cards graded by the seller as NM-MT that sell for more than what the same card would sell for in a PSA 8 holder and sometimes a PSA 9 holder. It happens ample times on every auction. This is not an anomaly at least for the cards I'm looking at. So why is this happening? Why are collectors spending a lot more money on a raw card that could be trimmed or not properly graded than a PSA 8 or 9 of the same card? Like I said if a collector does not like slabbed cards they can buy the PSA 9 and crack it out of the case. They would have a better condition card and not have to worry about the card being played with.

  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 10:18AM

    @Yankees70
    As someone who has been out of the hobby a very long time and coming back focusing on assembling raw sets, I agree that many of the hammer prices on GMC auctions for raw leave me rolling my eyes and shaking my head. But if that's the market, then that's the market. It doesn't have to make sense to me for it to be the way it is.
    That said, it's actually easier for me to understand with commons than with stars/HOFers. Because the current price of grading just doesn't make sense to send commons, I'd expect the action to be on the raw stuff there. But yeah. . .for HOFers. . .makes no sense to me.

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • @Yankees70 said:
    I did not miss that part and I don't think that "tampering" with the bidding is happening that much with the sales I'm discussing. My main question is I'm seeing ample raw cards graded by the seller as NM-MT that sell for more than what the same card would sell for in a PSA 8 holder and sometimes a PSA 9 holder. It happens ample times on every auction. This is not an anomaly at least for the cards I'm looking at. So why is this happening? Why are collectors spending a lot more money on a raw card that could be trimmed or not properly graded than a PSA 8 or 9 of the same card? Like I said if a collector does not like slabbed cards they can buy the PSA 9 and crack it out of the case. They would have a better condition card and not have to worry about the card being played with.

    What if some of those same people have seen cards which graded PSA 8 or 9 and didn't trust the opinion? We've had numerous threads here identifying cards which have been grossly overgraded. Some may be fearful of receiving a slabbed card that isn't what they expected. Some may not want to bother with cracking cards out or the bulk of holders in a collection. It's all speculation. But, we're not all the same. Card collectors are a weird bunch, anyways. We ain't like regular folk. We're dynamic. ;)

    Gobble.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 390 ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 2:41PM

    Mago is correct. You don’t have to understand why people pay more but they do. I was AMAZED at some of the prices he got for me. Way over PSA 9 price. No manipulation because ACH hit my bank after 28 days so they aren’t buying the stuff themselves at an inflated price so collectors are paying the bid price. Can’t explain it either but it happens and it happens a lot.
    I checked my records on their consignor site and I sent 6213 cards, they returned 644 cards as not up to their standards. Of the 5559 cards all but 2 sold meaning all got bids but 2.
    Of the 5557 cards, 11 were not paid for by winning bidders and 7 were returned by buyers. Total sales $61222 of which I received $48365.38 way more than I would of ever expected

  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    ..........Total sales $61222 of which I received $48365.38 way more than I would of ever expected.

    That kind of money can buy a lot of flights to attend live auctions in Delaware, huh gaspipe26?

  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭

    Looks like I’m prepping a batch of duplicates to send them.

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 3:41PM

    Thx Harnassracing for sharing your experience…good info to know.

    mint_only_pls
  • GrooGroo Posts: 216 ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 3:55PM

    @nam812 said:

    @Harnessracing said:
    ..........Total sales $61222 of which I received $48365.38 way more than I would of ever expected.

    That kind of money can buy a lot of flights to attend live auctions in Delaware, huh gaspipe26?

    Since no grading costs and getting slabbed prices that 25% commission is solid deal.

    Still logically difficult to wrap my mind around. "Cult" may be an accurate evaluation.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 390 ✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2024 9:32PM

    Since no grading costs and getting slabbed prices that 25% commission is solid deal.

    Still logically difficult to wrap my mind around. "Cult" may be an accurate evaluation.

    Not all cards get the premium so keep that in mind. A lot of cards from the 60s sell for a couple of dollars each. It’s not all roses. 50s cards do really well especially if GM grades the card high for the listing. Also remember you have to send $5000 in value for the submission . Consignment cards also take a back seat to whatever they may list on their own stock. It can take a couple of months for all cards to get listed, but the pay out fast and get good results overall.
    I cut my PSA submissions by 50-75% this year because they did so well although my 1977 Topps test submission’s were really good . Recently the grades have been really good, much better than 8-12 months ago when you couldn’t get anything in a 9 let alone a 10

  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭

    $5000 is the minimum for consignment submissions?
    That seems like a pretty high bar for some/many.
    Tho it def seems to be working for them.

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • Keep in mind also that the term "Set Break" has been a magnet on eBay for decades. The attraction of seeing all, or most of a set will presumably bring in more potential buyers looking for an opportunity to gather several instead of just a few at a time. I've seen it in both my own submissions and while following auctions as a watcher or buyer. If you have a great set to break from mid-70s or prior, it will do exponentially better than a handful of random cards.

    Gobble.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ElMagoStrikeZone said:

    @olb31 said:
    Not buying that one MAGO. 1978 PSA 9 Yount's sell for less than $50. The chances at this point of picking up a raw 1978 off ebay and getting a PSA 10 are probably 1 in 10,000. maybe more.

    One could just buy a nice centered 9, remove it and include it in their raw set.

    And the fact that a person doesn't know about grading and/or there values seems like a stab in the dark remark. Not trying to sound harsh to you at all. If it looks a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. I think for this particular event, the card price was manipulated.

    You must have missed the part where I said this: I know there are situations where people are "tampering" with values.

    You're focusing on an anomaly and trying to perceive it as the norm. It isn't. I'm have no argument for the fact people are messing with prices all over the place. I sold off a hoard of stuff last year and very few cards caused me to have suspicion of this method of tampering. I watched carefully because I didn't want to be a part of that. We can speculate over why things happen, but the facts don't lie. The majority of cards that pass through GMC do so legitimately.

    Could be.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 390 ✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2024 5:10PM

    Got got grades today on another group of 77s a few 8’s mostly 9s including a 77 Yount and a half dozen 10s. In the group was a 1968 Topps Clemente that got an 8. Pretty happy about that one. I got the upcharge email for that and the 77 Yount. Was surprised what the 77 Yount goes for

  • @ElMagoStrikeZone said:
    Keep in mind also that the term "Set Break" has been a magnet on eBay for decades. The attraction of seeing all, or most of a set will presumably bring in more potential buyers looking for an opportunity to gather several instead of just a few at a time. I've seen it in both my own submissions and while following auctions as a watcher or buyer. If you have a great set to break from mid-70s or prior, it will do exponentially better than a handful of random cards.

    I have a really sharp 1968 set minus the Ryan and Bench that I have already graded and sold. It’s the set the newly graded Clemente came from. My brother put it together maybe in 68 but it could have been mid 70s too. Don’t know. I’m considering sending to to GM but 68s don’t do as well. Still debating

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,687 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    Got got grades today on another group of 77s a few 8’s mostly 9s including a 77 Yount and a half dozen 10s. In the group was a 1968 Topps Clemente that got an 8. Pretty happy about that one. I got the upcharge email for that and the 77 Yount. Was surprised what the 77 Yount goes for

    Are you formerly gaspipe on these forums?



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Love me some '68 Topps Baseball. Helluva lotta other folks do too.

    Gobble.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @Harnessracing said:
    Got got grades today on another group of 77s a few 8’s mostly 9s including a 77 Yount and a half dozen 10s. In the group was a 1968 Topps Clemente that got an 8. Pretty happy about that one. I got the upcharge email for that and the 77 Yount. Was surprised what the 77 Yount goes for

    Are you formerly gaspipe on these forums?

    apparently the answer is yes.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @Harnessracing said:
    Got got grades today on another group of 77s a few 8’s mostly 9s including a 77 Yount and a half dozen 10s. In the group was a 1968 Topps Clemente that got an 8. Pretty happy about that one. I got the upcharge email for that and the 77 Yount. Was surprised what the 77 Yount goes for

    Are you formerly gaspipe on these forums?

    I showed that already in another thread, which he addressed and didn't deny. Here is that thread:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1099332

  • lwehlerslwehlers Posts: 903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ElMagoStrikeZone said:
    zorbaca also has a very devoted bunch of buyers. He does raw set breaks every week on schedule, usually sets from the 70s. I've had decent dealings with the seller in the past. Also, please take note that only 2 people are bidding on the card you've posted. They're going mano-a-mano over it for whatever reason, but the assessment that they might be overzealously bidding is on point.

    i may try and bid on some of zorbaca auctions for some commons in my seventies set. there are some nice looking cards on a few of there auctions. the stars are a little overgraded but the commons would be good for some of my sets and may not cost to much for me.

  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭

    A raw 78T Yount for $112 ain’t got nothin on this one -
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/186730776650

    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
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