Resubmissions to PSA ... failed, reviewed (failed again), and then pass?
musicfan123
Posts: 23 ✭
Had a thing like this happen and it surprised me. A long while ago (let's just say in the ballpark of close to eight years ago) I submitted in an item to PSA for autograph authentication. It failed certification. I knew it was real (got it myself) and I asked for a "review" and it still failed. Fast forward years after, I submitted the same item through - passed!!!
While I have no direct fault in PSA over this since we are paying for an opinion, I'm curious - have any of you went through a similar experience like this before?
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Comments
Two observations....
An autograph has to not only be authentic, it also has to be authenticatable. If it deviates enough from recognized styles then it won't (and shouldn't) pass.
Also, over time, certain styles or variations might become accepted as authentic. That is possibly what happened in your case.
I just sent in a bunch of HoFers signatures on cards that I got as a kid back in the 80s for their recent Authentication Monthly Special. I'm hoping that since I waited so long I've passed your 8 year window and won't need to wait another 8!
With the first observation, I understand that. However, the letters they issue with the rejections are very vague and generic on what didn't look right to them. Rightfully so ... I can see reason why they don't want to disclose every detail about that item to a person potentially counterfeiting the signature if they deemed something questionable. You never know who's sending the stuff in!
Also, with regards to the first observation, the style of this particular signature I am discussing (which I will not name nor show) was not that different at all to other certified ones prior to my recent resubmission. I should know - because if I personally thought it looked off (which I do strongly consider because it's me that's spending the money), then I wouldn't have bothered to send out in the first place.
But with regards to them figuring out later/recent variations, one must wonder how they finally determine that?
Overall ... I am happy it finally passed :-)
lets see a picture of the item in question
IMF
this is exactly why I do not purchase "authenticated" items. The "authentication" in question is simply an opinion. If I get one in person, I KNOW it is authentic.
A skilled forger like Greg Marino can and has gotten items past PSA, JSA Beckett etc. I have heard it said that greg marino could sign a mantle ball better than mantle could!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Here are some examples of the forgeries. Had to dig a bit. I have a few Mantle autos that I got at shows and the forgeries are not very good replicas of his signature.
Simpler times perhaps.
There are some athletes which do not have a consistent signing style - Manny Ramirez for example - which are frequently rejected. It’s best to err on the side of caution surely but I agree that there are mistakes made by authenticators and certainly forged autos out there. I’m skeptical of a few Clemente autos which have sold at auction in the past few years.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/most-common-mantle-forgeries-and-how-to-avoid
With my item aside subjecting it to gain further opinions from many here despite it passing PSA's authentication (which would have been better off with asking "does my item look authentic enough to submit to PSA?" on here prior to submission), I think the topic of this discussion is good enough and gets to the point. I'm also very sure it has happened to some in the past.
I'm glad you had an interest taking a moment reading this. Thank you
I recall in the mid 90's the FBI estimated more than 90% of all sports autographs were forgeries/fakes. IMHO ist probably at 99% now.
So much fake stuff everywhere. Was in a local card shop a few weeks back and they had a wall full of high priced fake Dimaggios, Mantles, Clementes, Aarons, Mays 8X10 and balls on their wall. I'm sure if I had said anything I would not have left the shop in one piece.
A truly honest Trading Care store owner may exist but I've never met one.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I feel like if you want to claim to be someone who is a legitimate autograph expert and capable of authenticating an autograph as genuine or not you know and have access to all the different versions of the person's autograph. I have a 55 Mantle and it looks nothing like his autograph after he became obscenely famous and signed a ton of things. And if someone signs different ways like Manny I think you need to be a handwriting expert who can note what is consistent.
I think what is being tolerated is the idea that some kid who grades 100 Pokemon cards in an hour can just switch desks and use a different charge code for his time worked as autograph expert and look at a single picture they have of someone's autograph and say, huh, yup, dat one looks like dis one, where is the sticker I need to slap on this thing. Hey does anybody want to go to Potbelly for lunch?
I have only ever had one autograph authenticated which was that 55 Mantle. In general though I personally dont value it as a service.
I'm generally the same with autographs and that's why I still had all mine in sleeves from 35 years ago. I used to love getting them as a kid but haven't gotten one since about 1985. I finally decided to get them authenticated and slabbed because a lot of the guys have passed since then. It'll be interesting to see which they slab since they're so old.
I can assure you people who grade Pokemon cards are not authenticating autos
^ seemed like the Pokemon reference was a sarcastic exaggeration.
Any decent authenticator at DNA or JSA should be able to determine a real from fake Mantle, DiMaggio, or any sig from player that is submitted by the metric ton per month. It's the not run-of-the-mill sigs I'd worry about.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
What about autographed Pokémon cards?
Kidding.
the only time something similar similar happened to me was a few years ago when in one of Derrick's annual group subs I included two Goose Gossage signed cards that I had personally signed at a golf tournament the summer prior.
One got slabbed and one wasn't ; I knew they had made a mistake & simply sent in the failed one in Derrick's next sub and it passed......
IMF
Was the Goose loose on the course?