1833 bust half dime - toned in the holder?

Bikergeek

I was scoping out this 1833 LM-10 in PCGS MS65. It's for sale now, and was in two separate auctions about a decade ago. The point of the thread is to ask, what may have caused the (attractive, IMHO) toning? Did this particular generation of PCGS holders have a tendency toward facilitating blue toning? Is this the mark of secondary toning after a recent dip?

Second point of the thread is to note the photographs. Stacks (2013) is excellent, and shows the bisecting obverse die crack among other details. Heritage (2014) and the new dealer (2024) don't have the same lighting, resolution, etc. Kinda interesting. There's no True View but here's the link: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/25016458

Stacks from 2013


Heritage from 2014


New offeror in 2024

jmlanzaf

The coin needs conserving

yosclimber

Stack's has some great photos.

Are you sure the last one is the same coin?

I would have expected to see more toning above TED STAT.

And the prong position is different, though it could rotate in holder.

hummingbird_coins

I think it should be left as-is, as long as the buyer knows that it is toning in the holder. It could even be used as a selling point for toning enthusiasts. I agree that it looks like it was dipped in the past and is now retoning.

hummingbird_coins

@yosclimber said:
Are you sure the last one is the same coin?

Yeah, the diagonal toning streaks on the cheek are there in all photos.

Bikergeek

@yosclimber I was keying on the little flaw between stars 2 and 3 near the dentils, and the little apostrophe-looking mark on the northeast part of star 9. Reverse is less distinctive, but yeah, I think same coin.

braddick

Looks like it was cracked- cleaned (conserved) and then aided with a bit of toning and sent back in for grading.

coinbuf

I do not like the look of this coin personally; it was clearly dipped in the past but now it looks to have been the victim of poor storage as well. The green in the current photos does not look like just tone, but maybe in hand it looks better.

jacrispies

The light toning streaks on the cheek also confirm they are the same coin. Couldn't find any reverse diagnostics to match but by the coloring they are a matching pair.

Very good find! You have a very sharp eye Sean, I always admire your research discoveries on individual coins. Wish I could answer your questions in detail, but I can say that color progression is unnatural according to Sunnywood's classification for toning patterns.

MFeld

The color gives the appearance of a coin that was dipped and later toned - secondary toning.

johnny9434

I might stay away from it with that just being me. Tis a beautiful coin 🪙

johnny9434

@MFeld said:
The color gives the appearance of a coin that was dipped and later toned - secondary toning.

Would that be relevant to other coins as well? For lack of better knowledge on my part

MFeld

@johnny9434 said:

@MFeld said:
The color gives the appearance of a coin that was dipped and later toned - secondary toning.

Would that be relevant to other coins as well? For lack of better knowledge on my part

I’m not sure that I understand your question. So if what I write below doesn’t answer it, please feel free to let me know and I’ll try again.

Many dipped silver coins will remain color-free, if properly rinsed afterwards.
However, the surfaces of dipped coins become more reactive, and depending upon the environment and storage conditions, some will still re-tone. If they do, the color can range anywhere from gorgeous to very ugly.
If, on the other hand, a dipped silver coin isn’t rinsed properly afterwards, it’s likely to re-tone unevenly and/or display splotches and/or hazy areas and/or unappealing toning. It’s rarely a pretty sight.

johnny9434

@MFeld said:

@johnny9434 said:

@MFeld said:
The color gives the appearance of a coin that was dipped and later toned - secondary toning.

Would that be relevant to other coins as well? For lack of better knowledge on my part

I’m not sure that I understand your question. So if what I write below doesn’t answer it, please feel free to let me know and I’ll try again.

Many dipped silver coins will remain color-free, if properly rinsed afterwards.
However, the surfaces of dipped coins become more reactive, and depending upon the environment and storage conditions, some will still re-tone. If they do, the color can range anywhere from gorgeous to very ugly.
If, on the other hand, a dipped silver coin isn’t rinsed properly afterwards, it’s likely to re-tone unevenly and/or display splotches and/or hazy areas and/or unappealing toning. It’s rarely a pretty sight.

Yes, that answered it. I've noticed it on other coins as well (what i first should have said) thank you 😊 🙏

RobertScotLover

I don't dig it but many love any form of blue