Pete Rose dead at 83

Steven59

Jesus - now Pete Rose dead, nothing more reported at this time.

Basebal21

Condolences to his family. I wonder if now that hes passed away he will finally get into the HOF where he belongs

GroceryRackPack

No Way...

GroceryRackPack

Steven59

I haven't heard anything about him in years - I was surprised he was 83!

LandrysFedora

RIP Charlie Hustle, like Baseball21 said above, hopefully he is considered for the HOF now.

BLUEJAYWAY

How ironic he passed on the final day of the regular season.

TheGoonies1985

Geez this is sad one of the all-time greatest!!!

DocBenjamin

Head first slide is iconic.

Estil

@Basebal21 said:
Condolences to his family. I wonder if now that hes passed away he will finally get into the HOF where he belongs

Nope, Shoeless Joe remains ineligible...it's called permanently ineligible list, not a "banned for life" list.

Basebal21

@Estil said:

@Basebal21 said:
Condolences to his family. I wonder if now that hes passed away he will finally get into the HOF where he belongs

Nope, Shoeless Joe remains ineligible...it's called permanently ineligible list, not a "banned for life" list.

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

bgr

@Basebal21 said:

@Estil said:

@Basebal21 said:
Condolences to his family. I wonder if now that hes passed away he will finally get into the HOF where he belongs

Nope, Shoeless Joe remains ineligible...it's called permanently ineligible list, not a "banned for life" list.

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

In one comment you say MLB controls the votes and in another you talk about voters not voting for players their first year on the ballot or voting for the wrong players. You spoke about how those voters shouldn’t be allowed to do that. Which is it? Are voters coloring outside the lines or are they all controlled by MLB? You got my head spinning.

craig44

what a shame. say what you want, but Pete Rose loved baseball.

Jack131

In his age 41 season in 1982, Pete Rose played every / 162 games in a season. I have to imagine that is the record for oldest player to play every / 162 games in a season. If so, I can't ever see that record being broken.

BLUEJAYWAY

I stated in another thread how ironic he passed on the last day of the regular season. I saw him in Vegas some 15 years ago at the casino. Always liked his on field play.

bronco2078

i bet the over 83

Steven59

"Major League Baseball hit king Pete Rose died from heart disease, the Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner in Nevada confirmed to TMZ Sports on Tuesday (October 1).
Rose, 83, was determined to have died from hypertensive and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease and was also battling diabetes mellitus, according to officials. The baseball legend's death was ruled as natural."

FredJRI

@bronco2078 said:
i bet the over 83

You would lose

Estil

@craig44 said:
what a shame. say what you want, but Pete Rose loved baseball.

Until he betrayed the sport and waited ~15 years to come fully clean about it just to sell a silly book.

FredJRI

One of the best baseball players I ever watched ..may he RIP

FredJRI

@Estil said:

@craig44 said:
what a shame. say what you want, but Pete Rose loved baseball.

Until he betrayed the sport and waited ~15 years to come fully clean about it just to sell a silly book.

I'd venture to say "he always loved baseball" ..not until he betrayed the sport

Tabe

@Basebal21 said:

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

This isn't true.

The Hall of Fame revised their rules in 1991 to put into writing the unwritten rule that had always been followed - that those on MLB's Ineligible List are not eligible for the Hall of Fame. (Source: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/voting-rules-history)

Pete Rose is on the Ineligible List. The agreement that Pete signed in 1989 stated Pete was "“permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150630114625/http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/agreement.html)

craig44

@Estil said:

@craig44 said:
what a shame. say what you want, but Pete Rose loved baseball.

Until he betrayed the sport and waited ~15 years to come fully clean about it just to sell a silly book.

I would disagree. Pete absolutely loved baseball. talked about it all the time. Guy had a raging gambling addiction. I think it was just the way he was hard wired. dont think he could have stopped gambling even if he wanted. Had he been a drunk, he would have been in the HOF for 30 years now.

bgr

@Tabe said:

@Basebal21 said:

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

This isn't true.

The Hall of Fame revised their rules in 1991 to put into writing the unwritten rule that had always been followed - that those on MLB's Ineligible List are not eligible for the Hall of Fame. (Source: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/voting-rules-history)

Pete Rose is on the Ineligible List. The agreement that Pete signed in 1989 stated Pete was "“permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150630114625/http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/agreement.html)

So you’re walking into a trap as I’m sure you know. I agree with you.

https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/election-rules/bbwaa-rules

Section 3E.

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

There has historically been some
Commentary on whether a players ban ends when they die.

I’ve seen both Vincent and Giamatti refer to it as a lifetime ban in quotes. So there’s always been a fans hope that he would be enshrined posthumously. While this “lifetime ban” was mentioned by past commissioners that isn’t the wording in the agreement Rose signed. The wording in the agreement is “permanently ineligible”.

Personally I always thought that at some point MLB and Rose would reunite and he would be elected to the HOF. He appears to have had a few opportunities to do that but he blew it big time with Selig and the rest is the rest. If you read Vincent’s comments recently reported after Roses death he mentions the specific wording and does his best to avoid clarifying it very clearly but my take is that Giamatti is referred to as the “black notes” and Vincent was playing the “white notes” which I read to say Vincent was more open to reinstating Rose at some point.

Then Manfred came along in 2015 and put an end to that. However. Manfred also said that he believes that the HOF can consider things separately from baseball. He also avoids stating his opinion as he sits on the board of the HOF and doesn’t want to poison the well. He only further states on that matter that the HOF does contain in its bylaws a requirement that a player is not on MLBs ineligible list. Things are subject to change so maybe some day.

While not in the hall of fame as a member Rose is well represented in the museum and he certainly left his mark on the game. Great player and competitor. In my top 100 all time.

bgr

charliej2356

Pete Rose was a jerk. Period, end of sentence.

Fosse said in interviews in recent years that he still had physical pain from the collision, but that he wasn't bitter. He said on several occasions that Rose never apologized to him for bowling him over.

"Not to disparage Pete, but a lot of truths have not come out since then," Fosse said in 2013, per Scott Miller, formerly of CBSSports.com. "Which is very upsetting."

GroceryRackPack

1970 All Star Game...7-14-70...

GroceryRackPack D.O.B...7-14-70...😄

bgr

@charliej2356 said:
Pete Rose was a jerk. Period, end of sentence.

Fosse said in interviews in recent years that he still had physical pain from the collision, but that he wasn't bitter. He said on several occasions that Rose never apologized to him for bowling him over.

"Not to disparage Pete, but a lot of truths have not come out since then," Fosse said in 2013, per Scott Miller, formerly of CBSSports.com. "Which is very upsetting."

You might be right but I think that there’s truth to the aphorism “don’t speak ill of the dead”.

charliej2356

“don’t speak ill of the dead”

There are exceptions to every rule/lesson of life. Pete Rose was a jerk.

bronco2078

interesting combination of the greatest traits of humanity
drive focus hardwork skill
and on the minus side outweighing all those
sports betting

ElMagoStrikeZone

Never saw until now that photo of Pete knocking over Fosse with Leo Durocher cheering him on. How appropriate.

craig44

on the flip side, Fosse did not have to block the plate in that all star game either

charliej2356

2 important points:

• An all-star game (at least back-in-the-day) is nothing more than a celebration of the best players -- it doesn't matter who wins
• Many years after the game Pete said that he still would bowl over Fosse instead of sliding/diving to attempt to score

Then we all knew that Pete Rose was a jerk.

charliej2356

I always preferred George Brett over Pete Rose. Both men were great players, both were very aggressive on the field, but George was a much more likeable human being. Be like George!!

craig44

@charliej2356 said:
I always preferred George Brett over Pete Rose. Both men were great players, both were very aggressive on the field, but George was a much more likeable human being. Be like George!!

I like both, also prefer Brett, but lets be real, George is pretty prickley too. He never does in person signings and definitely does not make himself available to his fans. Pete was easy to find and very friendly the 3 or 4 times i was able to speak with him.

Mistlin

It's pretty ironic, that the same people who lament the buddy-buddy nature of opponents in modern sports are the same ones casting stones at players calling them 'jerks' or any of a litany of insults meant to cast aggressive play.

Was Rose a jerk? By all accounts, absolutely. Does that detract what he did on the field? Absolutely not. The same 'jerk' behavior lamented here is the same behavior adored in players like Ty Cobb, who infamously slid spikes up into opponents and who has a photo in the Hall of Fame sliding INTO Paul Krichell.

The same negative light that MLB shone on Rose's gambling is a farce, seeing as every major sports league now not only embraces sports gambling, but they are partners with it.

That said, if MLB does not do the right thing, and FINALLY allow the enshrinement of Rose into the Hall of Fame, MLB will remain a joke.

Basebal21

@Tabe said:

@Basebal21 said:

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

This isn't true.

The Hall of Fame revised their rules in 1991 to put into writing the unwritten rule that had always been followed - that those on MLB's Ineligible List are not eligible for the Hall of Fame. (Source: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/voting-rules-history)

Pete Rose is on the Ineligible List. The agreement that Pete signed in 1989 stated Pete was "“permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150630114625/http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/agreement.html)

This is true as it was clarified by baseball around 2020. Everyone is scrambling to run cover for the HOF which is a separate entity anyways. Life time bans end when someone dies even if someone wants to say it applies to the HOF and not just working in baseball. MLB did the clarification when the major push for Joe Jackson happened. Theyre trying to walk it back now and get the clarification scrubbed but it happened.

Pete Rose could be in the HOF tomorrow if the HOF wanted to do it

charliej2356

Mistlin: What's up with your "ignore list"?

bgr

@Basebal21 said:

@Tabe said:

@Basebal21 said:

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

This isn't true.

The Hall of Fame revised their rules in 1991 to put into writing the unwritten rule that had always been followed - that those on MLB's Ineligible List are not eligible for the Hall of Fame. (Source: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/voting-rules-history)

Pete Rose is on the Ineligible List. The agreement that Pete signed in 1989 stated Pete was "“permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150630114625/http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/agreement.html)

This is true as it was clarified by baseball around 2020. Everyone is scrambling to run cover for the HOF which is a separate entity anyways. Life time bans end when someone dies even if someone wants to say it applies to the HOF and not just working in baseball. MLB did the clarification when the major push for Joe Jackson happened. Theyre trying to walk it back now and get the clarification scrubbed but it happened.

Pete Rose could be in the HOF tomorrow if the HOF wanted to do it

Love it. You’re disagreeing with Manfred. Not us. We just agree with the MLB commissioner.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5810427/2024/10/01/pete-rose-death-rob-manfred-tony-clark/

https://apnews.com/article/rose-hall-of-fame-d3da8832097f2717590096d68600fee4

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/10/01/pete-rose-death-mlb-lifetime-ban/

https://www.columbian.com/news/2024/oct/02/pete-rose-mlb-ban-was-permanent-not-lifetime-no-hall-of-fame/

https://www.ktnv.com/sports/pete-rose-still-not-going-into-hall-of-fame-his-mlb-ban-was-permanent-not-lifetime

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/pete-rose-still-not-going-into-hall-of-fame-his-19811316.php

https://frontofficesports.com/pete-rose-hall-of-fame-death/

bgr

MLB HOF election criteria.

https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/election-rules/bbwaa-rules

See. 3E.

How can you argue with this? Just how? What on earth is going on with this guy?

Tabe

@Basebal21 said:

@Tabe said:

@Basebal21 said:

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

This isn't true.

The Hall of Fame revised their rules in 1991 to put into writing the unwritten rule that had always been followed - that those on MLB's Ineligible List are not eligible for the Hall of Fame. (Source: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/voting-rules-history)

Pete Rose is on the Ineligible List. The agreement that Pete signed in 1989 stated Pete was "“permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150630114625/http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/agreement.html)

This is true as it was clarified by baseball around 2020. Everyone is scrambling to run cover for the HOF which is a separate entity anyways. Life time bans end when someone dies even if someone wants to say it applies to the HOF and not just working in baseball. MLB did the clarification when the major push for Joe Jackson happened. Theyre trying to walk it back now and get the clarification scrubbed but it happened.

Pete Rose could be in the HOF tomorrow if the HOF wanted to do it

I literally posted the actual agreement and current HOF rules. Unless you can show where Rose was take off the Ineligible List - and you can't - then I am correct.

Basebal21

@Tabe said:

@Basebal21 said:

@Tabe said:

@Basebal21 said:

Hes not ineligible neither is Rose. MLB clarified it a few years ago, bans are only for working in MLB not the HOF and they end when someone dies. Sure the HOF is probably just doing what MLB wants behind the scenes, but its 100 percent on the HOF and their voters. They could put both of them in if they wanted to

This isn't true.

The Hall of Fame revised their rules in 1991 to put into writing the unwritten rule that had always been followed - that those on MLB's Ineligible List are not eligible for the Hall of Fame. (Source: https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-fame/voting-rules-history)

Pete Rose is on the Ineligible List. The agreement that Pete signed in 1989 stated Pete was "“permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.” (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150630114625/http://seanlahman.com/files/rose/agreement.html)

This is true as it was clarified by baseball around 2020. Everyone is scrambling to run cover for the HOF which is a separate entity anyways. Life time bans end when someone dies even if someone wants to say it applies to the HOF and not just working in baseball. MLB did the clarification when the major push for Joe Jackson happened. Theyre trying to walk it back now and get the clarification scrubbed but it happened.

Pete Rose could be in the HOF tomorrow if the HOF wanted to do it

I literally posted the actual agreement and current HOF rules. Unless you can show where Rose was take off the Ineligible List - and you can't - then I am correct.

The HOF is controlled by the voters aka the media that are the same people saying its not up to them. It is a separate entity that can do whatever it wants. Any bans from HOF rules are self imposed and could be overturned in a day if they wanted to.

bgr

This aspect of the HOF is controlled by the HOF board. NOT the voters who are the media.

The HOF board could change their bylaws to allow players on MLBs ineligible list to be enshrined.

MLB commissioner Manfred or any future commissioner could reinstate Rose which would allow the HOF voters to enshrine Rose.

But. None of that means there’s a “secret memo” from MLB to Basebal21 which clarifies that a players status on the permanently ineligible list changes when they die. Further, there are many statements from MLB commissioners, including the current, stating the opposite.

Stop making things up. The sole source of the revelation was the documentary “Banned for Life” on ESPNs backstory. But there was never any confirmation from MLB and ESPN never even said there was. This was some guy - Don Van Natta Jr. who has some thoughts but never produced any statements from MLB to confirm. It’s a great documentary but it’s only that. MLB didn’t clarify anything other than the ban doesn’t end upon death and they did that in 1991. If I’ve missed something prove it or at least tell me you’ve already proven it and talk about skenes and the pirates.

DocBenjamin

@Mistlin said:
It's pretty ironic, that the same people who lament the buddy-buddy nature of opponents in modern sports are the same ones casting stones at players calling them 'jerks' or any of a litany of insults meant to cast aggressive play.

Was Rose a jerk? By all accounts, absolutely. Does that detract what he did on the field? Absolutely not. The same 'jerk' behavior lamented here is the same behavior adored in players like Ty Cobb, who infamously slid spikes up into opponents and who has a photo in the Hall of Fame sliding INTO Paul Krichell.

The same negative light that MLB shone on Rose's gambling is a farce, seeing as every major sports league now not only embraces sports gambling, but they are partners with it.

That said, if MLB does not do the right thing, and FINALLY allow the enshrinement of Rose into the Hall of Fame, MLB will remain a joke.

MLB has been a joke for a generation. Bogus runners in extra innings. Shot clock for pitchers. Allowing the Astros WC cheat championship to stand. Upholding the Barry Bonds HR record. At the team level, pulling late inning no hit pitchers.

A shadow of the former great game.

Tabe

@Basebal21 said:

The HOF is controlled by the voters aka the media that are the same people saying its not up to them. It is a separate entity that can do whatever it wants. Any bans from HOF rules are self imposed and could be overturned in a day if they wanted to.

And I never said any different.

bronco2078

@DocBenjamin said:

@Mistlin said:
It's pretty ironic, that the same people who lament the buddy-buddy nature of opponents in modern sports are the same ones casting stones at players calling them 'jerks' or any of a litany of insults meant to cast aggressive play.

Was Rose a jerk? By all accounts, absolutely. Does that detract what he did on the field? Absolutely not. The same 'jerk' behavior lamented here is the same behavior adored in players like Ty Cobb, who infamously slid spikes up into opponents and who has a photo in the Hall of Fame sliding INTO Paul Krichell.

The same negative light that MLB shone on Rose's gambling is a farce, seeing as every major sports league now not only embraces sports gambling, but they are partners with it.

That said, if MLB does not do the right thing, and FINALLY allow the enshrinement of Rose into the Hall of Fame, MLB will remain a joke.

MLB has been a joke for a generation. Bogus runners in extra innings. Shot clock for pitchers. Allowing the Astros WC cheat championship to stand. Upholding the Barry Bonds HR record. At the team level, pulling late inning no hit pitchers.

A shadow of the former great game.

next year the ball is getting bigger too

Mistlin

@DocBenjamin said:

MLB has been a joke for a generation. Bogus runners in extra innings. Shot clock for pitchers. Allowing the Astros WC cheat championship to stand. Upholding the Barry Bonds HR record. At the team level, pulling late inning no hit pitchers.

A shadow of the former great game.

Why is Bonds' record a "joke"? You do understand he is the legitimate home run king, right?

If you say it is actually Aaron, oh boy, will you be disappointed to hear that players for decades (including Aaron) popped amphetamines like candy.

DocBenjamin

If I Zelle ten bucks to you, will you drop BGR from you're ignore list and add my name?

bgr

I’ll offer $50

stevek

The only foul ball I ever got in all the many MLB games I attended, was off the bat of Pete Rose. He was still playing for the Reds. In a game at the Phillies stadium.

A soft fly ball into the lower seats on the first base side. Caught it on the fly, an easy catch, just in the right place at the right time. 😊

RIP

DocBenjamin

@stevek said:
The only foul ball I ever got in all the many MLB games I attended, was off the bat of Pete Rose. He was still playing for the Reds. In a game at the Phillies stadium.

A soft fly ball into the lower seats on the first base side. Caught it on the fly, an easy catch, just in the right place at the right time. 😊

RIP

That is great.