@PerryHall said:
When new collectors try to sell these modern gimmick coins at the local coin shop and are offered below melt value, most will leave the hobby forever.
That can and does happen with lots of non-gimmick coins, as well.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My understanding is that these are "awards" or "rewards" and not purchased. If that is the case, the melt price or retail ASE values will play a smaller role in perceived value to the recipient.
Full Disclosure - I am NOT a lawyer. That said, the cited provision appears to only apply to specific programs (i.e., subsections (x), (y), or (z)). For example, (y) is upcoming semiquicentennial issues.
Without getting too far into the weeds, 31 U.S.C. § 5112(e) is a stand alone specific provision---"Notwithstanding any other provision of law...." That subsection sets minimum design standards-- but there is no language prohibiting the addition of privy marks. Subsections, for coins other than Silver Eagles do not apply to sub (e) given its "notwithstanding" language.
The "in the weeds answer" would run considerably longer
Same here. I have come to expect this sort of thing from the US mint. I haven't purchased anything from the Mint in years, due to the overpriced items, and gimmicks, politically correct design/themes, etc. This is no exception, certainly will not be playing 'games' to try to get one. But if it floats your boat.... go for it!
Without getting too far into the weeds, 31 U.S.C. § 5112(e) is a stand alone specific provision---"Notwithstanding any other provision of law...." That subsection sets minimum design standards-- but there is no language prohibiting the addition of privy marks. Subsections, for coins other than Silver Eagles do not apply to sub (e) given its "notwithstanding" language.
The "in the weeds answer" would run considerably longer
I understand. Thanks for keeping it a layman's level.
Sounds like you have some expertise in this area. So, I would like to ask a follow-up question.
Per the article in the OP, it appears that the Mint is going to add a privy mark to select ASEs. Is it your position that the Mint has the authority to do this because they are not specifically prohibited from doing so?
@oldabeintx said:
Not sure why I’m bothered by this or any “marketing” ploy. Perhaps it’s my old-fashioned belief that the the mint should stick to the business of issuing coins for circulation. Of course this ship sailed long ago with the issuing of proof coins for collectors.
I wonder if the " Mint " is making any profit doing this. ? I don't think there is any way to find out if they are recouping all the expenses associated with these item or how much the taxpayers are unknowingly paying for these private deals,
Past transactions with: Lordmarcovan, WTCG, YogiBerraFan, Phoenin21, LindeDad, Coll3ctor, blue594, robkoll, Mike Dixon, BloodMan, Flakthat and others.
@oldabeintx said:
Not sure why I’m bothered by this or any “marketing” ploy. Perhaps it’s my old-fashioned belief that the the mint should stick to the business of issuing coins for circulation. Of course this ship sailed long ago with the issuing of proof coins for collectors.
I wonder if the " Mint " is making any profit doing this. ? I don't think there is any way to find out if they are recouping all the expenses associated with these item or how much the taxpayers are unknowingly paying for these private deals,
Actually, any profit goes to the US Treasury.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
When new collectors try to sell these modern gimmick coins at the local coin shop and are offered below melt value, most will leave the hobby forever.
@PerryHall said:
When new collectors try to sell these modern gimmick coins at the local coin shop and are offered below melt value, most will leave the hobby forever.
That can and does happen with lots of non-gimmick coins, as well.
Some shops are at or below face for modern mint sets.
@PerryHall said:
When new collectors try to sell these modern gimmick coins at the local coin shop and are offered below melt value, most will leave the hobby forever.
Limited enough run, they may trade higher.
Online, maybe. At most local coin shops, highly unlikely.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
@oldabeintx said:
Not sure why I’m bothered by this or any “marketing” ploy. Perhaps it’s my old-fashioned belief that the the mint should stick to the business of issuing coins for circulation. Of course this ship sailed long ago with the issuing of proof coins for collectors.
I wonder if the " Mint " is making any profit doing this. ? I don't think there is any way to find out if they are recouping all the expenses associated with these item or how much the taxpayers are unknowingly paying for these private deals,
Actually, any profit goes to the US Treasury.
They do issue an annual report. It doesn't break down by item but category. Since they raised prices a few years ago, they are profitable.
@PerryHall said:
When new collectors try to sell these modern gimmick coins at the local coin shop and are offered below melt value, most will leave the hobby forever.
Limited enough run, they may trade higher.
Online, maybe. At most local coin shops, highly unlikely.
Really hard to say, especially depending on how popular the game. There are shops that offer melt for 93-S Morgan dollars also. They're will be some. I'm not prepared to say "most".
Does anyone know if these 50,000 minted star privies from the ERA game sets are only in NGC holders? Do I have to buy one and cross it over? I don't want to have to sign up for the game.
@Goldminers said:
Does anyone know if these 50,000 minted star privies from the ERA game sets are only in NGC holders? Do I have to buy one and cross it over? I don't want to have to sign up for the game.
Not sure, still searching for that elusive Pornhub privy that was mentioned in an earlier post. THKS!
@Goldminers said:
Does anyone know if these 50,000 minted star privies from the ERA game sets are only in NGC holders? Do I have to buy one and cross it over? I don't want to have to sign up for the game.
If there are going to be 500,000 of the star privy silver eagles, I don't see a need to rush in and overpay for the first 50,000, or any other marketing gimmick of them with exclusive labels, at all.
However, getting one of the 1,794 flowing hair medals with the 230 privies will be a significant rarity.
@ambro51 said:
Well looks like a lot of collectors are pissed they can’t figure out a way to get one. Boo Hoo….
Huh? who is pissed? Just order one at BullionShark for $90-100. They have plenty. Just be aware that they will call and text you to sell you more items.
Honestly, I like it. My kids are not interested in coins, but they love video games. I would not expect an older population of collectors to be into video games and cartoon coins. But my boys are super into their video game status.
When I took my boy to a coin show, he wanted a colorized Captain America coin. When I would not buy it, he said he would work for it (he was 8 then and turning 10 this month). That was all I needed... I bought the coin and we worked in the yard for $5/hr (the coin was $100). I made him work his butt off until he bought the coin from me. Will he get his money back? No (not all of it). But, he worked for that coin... he felt accomplished. And, while I would never buy this coin for myself... I did nothing but encourage him to go after what he wants - even when he has to work for it.
My goal is to get my kids interested in coins and collecting. If they start with these video game coins, great... the gamification will make them feel like they earn the coins they buy (very much in the same way we feel when we find that one coin we need after months/years of searching). I want them to enjoy it... and feel the accomplishment. Once I have them there, it will be easier for me to get them to appreciate classic American coinage.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@coinbuf said:
How exactly is this the doing of the US mint?
Well they’re producing the “privy marked” silver eagles for a private company now as part of a “partnership.” They’ve opened the door wide open to chaos now. Can’t wait to see the Pornhub privy mark, because to not do so will become a first amendment violation.
They could do it with a type one standing liberty quarter.
@Ebeneezer said:
How could anything which will attract new collectors to the hobby be a wrong idea? A collaboration does not in any way mean that an outside facility will be striking the U.S. Silver Eagle. They have done so for years, albeit quietly in most cases, with non-mint employed sculptors/designers. The 1999 Dolly Madison comes to mind as it's one of my personal modern favorites, designed by Tiffany and Company. A collaboration. While I myself won't be adding any such coins, I most certainly will not critcize those who would or do.
The way to attract new collectors is to have these types of coins in circulation where maybe people will notice. I would also give the mint broad authority to mint copper large cents so the barrier to these different types of coins are low. While classic designs are on gold and silver for more traditional collectors.
@GiveMeProof said:
I don't see any of the star privy silver eagles for sale in a PCGS holder. Is this strictly an NGC thing?
No, it is just PCGS takes longer to grade them from the Authorized Purchasers who will also have them as bullion buyers.
No rush, there are going to be 500,000 of them.
@GiveMeProof said:
I don't see any of the star privy silver eagles for sale in a PCGS holder. Is this strictly an NGC thing?
No, it is just PCGS takes longer to grade them from the Authorized Purchasers who will also have them as bullion buyers.
No rush, there are going to be 500,000 of them.
I hope they do not continue making these in 2025.
NOT 'promoting/recommending' a specific source. Just providing, as examples, some PENDING listings from BE (i.e., "Notify Me" Status).
@Ebeneezer said:
How could anything which will attract new collectors to the hobby be a wrong idea? A collaboration does not in any way mean that an outside facility will be striking the U.S. Silver Eagle. They have done so for years, albeit quietly in most cases, with non-mint employed sculptors/designers. The 1999 Dolly Madison comes to mind as it's one of my personal modern favorites, designed by Tiffany and Company. A collaboration. While I myself won't be adding any such coins, I most certainly will not critcize those who would or do.
The way to attract new collectors is to have these types of coins in circulation where maybe people will notice. I would also give the mint broad authority to mint copper large cents so the barrier to these different types of coins are low. While classic designs are on gold and silver for more traditional collectors.
You mean like Presidential dollars?
How many non-collectors even noticed the W on quarters?
@GiveMeProof said:
I don't see any of the star privy silver eagles for sale in a PCGS holder. Is this strictly an NGC thing?
No, it is just PCGS takes longer to grade them from the Authorized Purchasers who will also have them as bullion buyers.
No rush, there are going to be 500,000 of them.
I hope they do not continue making these in 2025.
Thanks for the response @Goldminers. And I agree about 2025. And thanks for the research @MetroD.
I stopped collecting ASEs in 1995 because of the "W" Proof that only came with the "Anniversary" Gold Eagle Set.
This trend of making "instant rarities" for select clienteles is continuing to fragment the hobby and will ultimately dilute the values of most collectible coins in general. The credibility of the US Mint is gone. Just sayin.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
I stopped collecting ASEs in 1995 because of the "W" Proof that only came with the "Anniversary" Gold Eagle Set.
This trend of making "instant rarities" for select clienteles is continuing to fragment the hobby and will ultimately dilute the values of most collectible coins in general. The credibility of the US Mint is gone. Just sayin.
Then again you will never have another Eliasberg again.
Interesting concept from the US Mint to adopt this and maybe this is the start of the "privy era" for US coinage and bullion? The second year of the W mint mark quarters featured the "V75", the GSE and ASE each had theirs, albeit you could directly attempt to purchase them from the mint and now the 230 year anniversary of the 1794 dollar and now this (P) ASE. I saw this in the sports card arena starting over 30 years ago with parallel inserts, etc and now it's super common for 1/1, 1/25, 1/100, etc, refractors of different colors, holograms, stamped sports cards and then shortly followed were the autographed cards, also now with limited serial numbers. Canada has had bullion stamped privy coins for a while now so this isn't exactly the latest idea in coins/bullion but I can fully see the eventual progression towards limited privy marks, possible unique or limited minted finishes following what the sports card industry is widely already using to draw in modern collectors to purchase more and more product in hopes of scoring a potential lottery ticket winning. Who knows, be on the lookout for a 1/1 privy inserted into a random monster box of ASE or similar into released circulating pocket change? Not saying I agree or disagree though I do see the parallels of the sports card industry at play here and if it works to draw in more collectors I see that as a good thing. My journey started in the state quarters program and once I was hooked my knowledge progressed and now I pursue 1807-1891 half dollars. Best of luck to any and all that partake.
Yes, I think it's inevitable that the US Mint will start going down the path that most other mints have already gone down. Colorized coins, privy's, 1 out of 10 of such and such coin are special/different. How could it not happen?
I also am not. Actually my first thought was, huh, now I gotta learn this game.
This kinda reminds me of when Cheerios wanted you to buy the cereal and maybe you got a $1 coin.
I didn't buy the cereal. Years later I wish I had bought the cereal.
@jmski52 said:
I stopped collecting ASEs in 1995 because of the "W" Proof that only came with the "Anniversary" Gold Eagle Set.
This trend of making "instant rarities" for select clienteles is continuing to fragment the hobby and will ultimately dilute the values of most collectible coins in general. The credibility of the US Mint is gone. Just sayin.
The sports card industry has been doing the instant rarities game for years. Numbered cards,1 of 1etc.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Comments
That can and does happen with lots of non-gimmick coins, as well.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My understanding is that these are "awards" or "rewards" and not purchased. If that is the case, the melt price or retail ASE values will play a smaller role in perceived value to the recipient.
Without getting too far into the weeds, 31 U.S.C. § 5112(e) is a stand alone specific provision---"Notwithstanding any other provision of law...." That subsection sets minimum design standards-- but there is no language prohibiting the addition of privy marks. Subsections, for coins other than Silver Eagles do not apply to sub (e) given its "notwithstanding" language.
The "in the weeds answer" would run considerably longer
Same here. I have come to expect this sort of thing from the US mint. I haven't purchased anything from the Mint in years, due to the overpriced items, and gimmicks, politically correct design/themes, etc. This is no exception, certainly will not be playing 'games' to try to get one. But if it floats your boat.... go for it!
I understand. Thanks for keeping it a layman's level.
Sounds like you have some expertise in this area. So, I would like to ask a follow-up question.
Per the article in the OP, it appears that the Mint is going to add a privy mark to select ASEs. Is it your position that the Mint has the authority to do this because they are not specifically prohibited from doing so?
Gimmicky? Yes. Impact on collectors and the general public? As lasting as a boiled cabbage and tuna fart on a windy day.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I wonder if the " Mint " is making any profit doing this. ? I don't think there is any way to find out if they are recouping all the expenses associated with these item or how much the taxpayers are unknowingly paying for these private deals,
Lordmarcovan, WTCG, YogiBerraFan, Phoenin21, LindeDad, Coll3ctor, blue594, robkoll, Mike Dixon, BloodMan, Flakthat and others.
Actually, any profit goes to the US Treasury.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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Limited enough run, they may trade higher.
Why would they care if they won them in the game?
Some shops are at or below face for modern mint sets.
Online, maybe. At most local coin shops, highly unlikely.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
They do issue an annual report. It doesn't break down by item but category. Since they raised prices a few years ago, they are profitable.
Really hard to say, especially depending on how popular the game. There are shops that offer melt for 93-S Morgan dollars also. They're will be some. I'm not prepared to say "most".
My theory is that they're using up the leftover stars from the 1922 Grant commemoratives.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Does anyone know if these 50,000 minted star privies from the ERA game sets are only in NGC holders? Do I have to buy one and cross it over? I don't want to have to sign up for the game.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Not sure, still searching for that elusive Pornhub privy that was mentioned in an earlier post. THKS!
Looks like NGC is encapsulating the ones awarded by Eighth Era.
Source: https://www.coinnews.net/2024/09/27/numismatic-themed-game-rewards-players-with-unique-u-s-mint-coins/
Also looks like the TOTAL mintage for the star privy mark will be limited to 500,000, and the plan is for them to be available through the AP network.
Source: https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/american-eagle-bullion-coin-privy.html
No idea how the "First 50,000 Issued" designation is going to be handled (e.g., exclusive to Eighth Era, awarded based on monster box numbers, etc.).
May I suggest that we change the title of this thread so we don't end up with inevitable duplicate threads about the star privy ASE?
If there are going to be 500,000 of the star privy silver eagles, I don't see a need to rush in and overpay for the first 50,000, or any other marketing gimmick of them with exclusive labels, at all.
However, getting one of the 1,794 flowing hair medals with the 230 privies will be a significant rarity.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Well looks like a lot of collectors are pissed they can’t figure out a way to get one. Boo Hoo….
Huh? who is pissed? Just order one at BullionShark for $90-100. They have plenty. Just be aware that they will call and text you to sell you more items.
Honestly, I like it. My kids are not interested in coins, but they love video games. I would not expect an older population of collectors to be into video games and cartoon coins. But my boys are super into their video game status.
When I took my boy to a coin show, he wanted a colorized Captain America coin. When I would not buy it, he said he would work for it (he was 8 then and turning 10 this month). That was all I needed... I bought the coin and we worked in the yard for $5/hr (the coin was $100). I made him work his butt off until he bought the coin from me. Will he get his money back? No (not all of it). But, he worked for that coin... he felt accomplished. And, while I would never buy this coin for myself... I did nothing but encourage him to go after what he wants - even when he has to work for it.
My goal is to get my kids interested in coins and collecting. If they start with these video game coins, great... the gamification will make them feel like they earn the coins they buy (very much in the same way we feel when we find that one coin we need after months/years of searching). I want them to enjoy it... and feel the accomplishment. Once I have them there, it will be easier for me to get them to appreciate classic American coinage.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I don't see any of the star privy silver eagles for sale in a PCGS holder. Is this strictly an NGC thing?
They could do it with a type one standing liberty quarter.
The way to attract new collectors is to have these types of coins in circulation where maybe people will notice. I would also give the mint broad authority to mint copper large cents so the barrier to these different types of coins are low. While classic designs are on gold and silver for more traditional collectors.
No, it is just PCGS takes longer to grade them from the Authorized Purchasers who will also have them as bullion buyers.
No rush, there are going to be 500,000 of them.
I hope they do not continue making these in 2025.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
NOT 'promoting/recommending' a specific source. Just providing, as examples, some PENDING listings from BE (i.e., "Notify Me" Status).
1) PCGS MS-70
Link: https://bullionexchanges.com/2024-p-star-privy-1-oz-silver-american-eagle-pcgs-ms-70
2) PCGS MS-69
Link: https://bullionexchanges.com/2024-p-star-privy-1-oz-silver-american-eagle-pcgs-ms-69
3) PCGS GEM
Link: https://bullionexchanges.com/2024-p-star-privy-1-oz-silver-american-eagle-pcgs-gem-unc
I dont see a downside to this program as long as the relationship with the partners are transparent and the partner is fair in the distribution.
You mean like Presidential dollars?
How many non-collectors even noticed the W on quarters?
Thanks for the response @Goldminers. And I agree about 2025. And thanks for the research @MetroD.
Mark Salzberg's next very clever business. I'm intrugued by the entire game plan he has laid out. Hope it soars!
I stopped collecting ASEs in 1995 because of the "W" Proof that only came with the "Anniversary" Gold Eagle Set.
This trend of making "instant rarities" for select clienteles is continuing to fragment the hobby and will ultimately dilute the values of most collectible coins in general. The credibility of the US Mint is gone. Just sayin.
I knew it would happen.
Then again you will never have another Eliasberg again.
Interesting concept from the US Mint to adopt this and maybe this is the start of the "privy era" for US coinage and bullion? The second year of the W mint mark quarters featured the "V75", the GSE and ASE each had theirs, albeit you could directly attempt to purchase them from the mint and now the 230 year anniversary of the 1794 dollar and now this (P) ASE. I saw this in the sports card arena starting over 30 years ago with parallel inserts, etc and now it's super common for 1/1, 1/25, 1/100, etc, refractors of different colors, holograms, stamped sports cards and then shortly followed were the autographed cards, also now with limited serial numbers. Canada has had bullion stamped privy coins for a while now so this isn't exactly the latest idea in coins/bullion but I can fully see the eventual progression towards limited privy marks, possible unique or limited minted finishes following what the sports card industry is widely already using to draw in modern collectors to purchase more and more product in hopes of scoring a potential lottery ticket winning. Who knows, be on the lookout for a 1/1 privy inserted into a random monster box of ASE or similar into released circulating pocket change? Not saying I agree or disagree though I do see the parallels of the sports card industry at play here and if it works to draw in more collectors I see that as a good thing. My journey started in the state quarters program and once I was hooked my knowledge progressed and now I pursue 1807-1891 half dollars. Best of luck to any and all that partake.
Yes, I think it's inevitable that the US Mint will start going down the path that most other mints have already gone down. Colorized coins, privy's, 1 out of 10 of such and such coin are special/different. How could it not happen?
I also am not. Actually my first thought was, huh, now I gotta learn this game.
This kinda reminds me of when Cheerios wanted you to buy the cereal and maybe you got a $1 coin.
I didn't buy the cereal. Years later I wish I had bought the cereal.
https://imdb.com/name/nm1835107/
The sports card industry has been doing the instant rarities game for years. Numbered cards,1 of 1etc.
Exactly!
Don't like it? Don't buy it. What a concept!