Average age of coin dealers and shop owners, and future new blood

BLUEJAYWAY

As I do not frequent most shows like others do, what is an average age of dealers? Shop owners? Do you see young dealers breaking into the business?
On the sports card side there always seems to be a fair amount of turnover in dealers at shows with a younger group replacing the older group. Is this seen at coin shows across the US?
Also the many younger card dealers deal primarily in modern cards. Are any young coin dealers following suit and primarily dealing with modern coins? If not where are they obtaining the vintage coins from if the old guard controls most of the vintage coinage.

FrankH

The young ones would probably be generational succession.
That is an excellent way to build a "legacy" business.

ajaan

I only attend shows in the Buffalo area. I would say the mean age of the dealers is 58.4 years.

DocBenjamin

@ajaan said:
I only attend shows in the Buffalo area. I would say the mean age of the dealers is 58.4 years.

How old are the friendly ones?

logger7

A local shop I like passed the baton last year, the fellow who runs it is in his 40s.

PeakRarities

Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation with respect to customer service. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate (which is no problem if you don’t berate me for requesting additional pictures) I will be glad to see the nasty curmudgeons age out of the hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

MrEureka

@PeakRarities said:
A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

Well now you've hurt my feelings!

DocBenjamin

@PeakRarities said:
Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

Old guys though, still know how to turn a profit.

PeakRarities

@MrEureka said:

@PeakRarities said:
A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

Well now you've hurt my feelings!

Obviously I’m not talking about you, what I’m talking about is an entirely different animal….😅 (pun intended)

PeakRarities

@DocBenjamin said:

@PeakRarities said:
Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

Old guys though, still know how to turn a profit.

I would hope so, after decades in the business!

lol, you seem alright Glicker, my comment above gives a bit more specific example of what I’m talking about.

air4mdc

@PeakRarities said:
Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

You should cut the curmudgeons a break. You have to realize that some of these people that have been in the business 30-50 years have dealt with thieves and crack addicts and every type of unsavory character trying to sell a stolen coin/s in their shop. Not all people involved in numismatics are on the up and up. I've seen customers arguing with the dealer about how much their stolen coin is worth. And yes, a seasoned dealer can tell when the person trying to sell them the coin probably stole it. I've seen dealers have to raise their voices for them to leave. And some come into the store more than once a week and try to pull one over. So, yes, I can see where a dealer could become negative and crusty over time, just like a nice gold coin in the wild.

spacehayduke

@PeakRarities said:
Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

I know alot of dealers out there aged ≥ 55 that do not meet the 'negative stereotype' criteria you are implying in your post regarding ‘old timers'…….. In fact, some of the best websites available in numismatics are owned and maintained by the ‘older generation’. But I guess they are all technologically illiterate aren’t they? That is just one example of many where your broad brush paints a different image than reality. Very degrading post IMO.

Cougar1978

I think mainly retired people setting up although a guy 40ish at table next to me, Three cases of slabs. Fresh blood is entering. A big gun possibly millionaire dealers 12 year old son (real sharp) was going around the bourse room making deals on $5,000 plus material from his dads table. I even bought some stuff he picked up for me from their table much lower ticket than than $5000 lol. One thing I like about the coin biz is the corp fad of age bias has not invaded it. For many it is death that determines their exit like one guy in 2020 / Covid got him at age 78.

braddick

@ajaan said:
I only attend shows in the Buffalo area. I would say the mean age of the dealers is 58.4 years.

Instead of mustard this new generation of dealers have avocado toast stains on their Pendleton shirts.

PeakRarities

@spacehayduke said:

@PeakRarities said:
Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

I know alot of dealers out there aged ≥ 55 that do not meet the 'negative stereotype' criteria you are implying in your post regarding ‘old timers'…….. In fact, some of the best websites available in numismatics are owned and maintained by the ‘older generation’. But I guess they are all technologically illiterate aren’t they? That is just one example of many where your broad brush paints a different image than reality. Very degrading post IMO.

I’m sorry you interpreted it like that, but I was being very specific about the actual “curmudgeons” that are rude, abrasive, and act like you ruin their day if you ask for better pictures or videos. Obviously, the old timers who are respectful, knowledgeable, and willing to spend time at least making an attempt to let someone see a coin before they commit to it are the ones that paved the way for the younger generation. Technological illiteracy can absolutely be forgiven if someone is kind and willing to try to describe the coin to the best of their ability, or if they send a coin on memo, but there have been many times where I was interested in a coin with poor photos. I email and get no response, then I call to get on the phone with someone who acts like I should just be able to see the coin from their sub par photos, and god forbid I ask them to try again at which point they’ll scoff. But yet they want to be paid up front and they’ll be nasty if you want to return the coin.

And I have to stand by the fact that as a generalization, the younger crowd seem to be much more interested in providing a quality service and willing to invest time and money to provide photographs. Though I could have phrased in a better way, I said I would be glad to see the “curmudgeons” age out, and you are obviously not a curmudgeon. My post after that specified that I was referring to a specific type of dealer, which we observe on the forum every day that the attitude towards customers is unacceptable in any industry.

DoubleEagle59

Average age......old to very old.

But not as old as the age of stamp dealers....who are extremely old.

When I was 55 years old, I attended a stamp show (as it shared the venue with many coin dealers) and as I approached the stamp dealer's booth, he said to me ......"what are you looking for today, Sonny?"

'Sonny" I said.

"I haven't been called Sonny since Nixon was in office".

PeakRarities

And I edited my prior comment to be more clear, but does anyone realize how many people are NOT coin collectors because of their bad experiences with the type of coin dealers I’m referring to? I see Google reviews all the time of people who had an interest in starting to collect coins, but their lcs was rude and unwelcoming, so with no local business to give them guidance they just decide ti leave the hobby.

Again, SH, I wish you would consider trying to understand what I’m saying instead of taking umbrage every time you read something that sounds a certain way. Not all of my posts are well manicured essays that I proof read, I’m busy working all day and spit out quick thoughts sometimes with poor phrasing or word choice, things don’t come out the right way. Everyone on this forum knows damn well what I’m talking about, my first experience as a collector was getting sold a cleaned seated quarter in vf for like $100 when I later found out it was a $20 coin. There are plenty of those guys, of all ages, that have shops. They single handedly do more damage to the hobby than you would like to admit, and in my opinion if you’re not capable of being professional and treating people with respect, you shouldn’t be a business owner. Or at the very least, hire someone else to work the counter.

braddick

Discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex gender identity, national origin, age, and disability is frowned upon and severely looked upon with disgrace if negatively commented on.

Yet out of those various groups, age is the only catagory that is routinely mocked and made fun of on threads like these.
I wonder why as it is a catagory every human wishes to eventually become, I'd think.

DocBenjamin

... but there have been many times where I was interested in a coin with poor photos. I email and get no response, then I call to get on the phone with someone who acts like I should just be able to see the coin from their sub par photos, and god forbid I ask them to try again at which point they’ll scoff. But yet they want to be paid up front and they’ll be nasty if you want to return the coin.

Sorry Dan...I was on the golf course that day.

PeakRarities

@air4mdc said:

@PeakRarities said:
Average age at table holding dealers at shows is probably like 55. Lot of vest pocket dealers from ages 16-30, and of course you have the 80 year old geezers who have been doing this for 50 years.

For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation. A lot of the old timers don’t have great customer service skills and they’re technologically illiterate. I will be glad to see the curmudgeons age out of th hobby and we can lose all the negative stereotypes.

You should cut the curmudgeons a break. You have to realize that some of these people that have been in the business 30-50 years have dealt with thieves and crack addicts and every type of unsavory character trying to sell a stolen coin/s in their shop. Not all people involved in numismatics are on the up and up. I've seen customers arguing with the dealer about how much their stolen coin is worth. And yes, a seasoned dealer can tell when the person trying to sell them the coin probably stole it. I've seen dealers have to raise their voices for them to leave. And some come into the store more than once a week and try to pull one over. So, yes, I can see where a dealer could become negative and crusty over time, just like a nice gold coin in the wild.

I understand what you're saying, but every business and industry has its pros and cons. If I ever get to the point where I'm so miserable and cranky from dealing with people, that's when its time for me to move onto something where i don't have to deal with people.

I probably spend at least 2 hrs a week talking to people about nothing essentially, they wanted to know if their pocket change is worth anything and I start filling them in on how to best utilize their time, and to focus on known varieties instead of looking at random coins. Is it annoying? Yes. Do i expect others to go that far with it? Absolutely not. But I like to give everyone the same quality if service, and you never know when one of them is going to bud into a serious collector or hit the lottery, and they will not forget how you treated them prior to that time. It's not hard to differentiate between a crackhead or someone trying to rip them off, from the clueless novice who could use some simple direction. I can tell within the first 30 seconds of the conversation.

MICHAELDIXON

At the Gettysburg Show, I have noticed several young dealers in the mid 20s to early 30s. Several have opened brick and mortar shops also. The hobby is not dieing off.

Walkerfan

Based on what I’ve seen, I’d say the average age is late 40s. Lotta old timers still active, but a lot of new blood, as well.

BLUEJAYWAY

@DocBenjamin said:

... but there have been many times where I was interested in a coin with poor photos. I email and get no response, then I call to get on the phone with someone who acts like I should just be able to see the coin from their sub par photos, and god forbid I ask them to try again at which point they’ll scoff. But yet they want to be paid up front and they’ll be nasty if you want to return the coin.

Sorry Dan...I was on the golf course that day.

Are you a Doctor?😀

7Jaguars

Baltimore show - big range of ages, average is pushing 60 for sure. I see the older dealers as not necessarily curmudgeonly but rather more passive and tending to ignore. Maybe I don't really buy too many coins in that format anymore though.
Regardless, in all honesty we are talking "Buick Demographics" with an upside down pyramid if you follow me which generally reflects a tendency to retraction rather than static conditions or growth. So not that there are no younger folks, but IMHO a more accurate reflection of what is actually occurring.

oreville

@7Jaguars said:
Baltimore show - big range of ages, average is pushing 60 for sure. I see the older dealers as not necessarily curmudgeonly but rather more passive and tending to ignore. Maybe I don't really buy too many coins in that format anymore though.
Regardless, in all honesty we are talking "Buick Demographics" with an upside down pyramid if you follow me which generally reflects a tendency to retraction rather than static conditions or growth. So not that there are no younger folks, but IMHO a more accurate reflection of what is actually occurring.

I agree with this assessment more than Peak Rarities’s observation. There are exceptions to both comments.

spacehayduke

@PeakRarities said:
And I edited my prior comment to be more clear, but does anyone realize how many people are NOT coin collectors because of their bad experiences with the type of coin dealers I’m referring to? I see Google reviews all the time of people who had an interest in starting to collect coins, but their lcs was rude and unwelcoming, so with no local business to give them guidance they just decide ti leave the hobby.

Again, SH, I wish you would consider trying to understand what I’m saying instead of taking umbrage every time you read something that sounds a certain way. Not all of my posts are well manicured essays that I proof read, I’m busy working all day and spit out quick thoughts sometimes with poor phrasing or word choice, things don’t come out the right way. Everyone on this forum knows damn well what I’m talking about, my first experience as a collector was getting sold a cleaned seated quarter in vf for like $100 when I later found out it was a $20 coin. There are plenty of those guys, of all ages, that have shops. They single handedly do more damage to the hobby than you would like to admit, and in my opinion if you’re not capable of being professional and treating people with respect, you shouldn’t be a business owner. Or at the very least, hire someone else to work the counter.

I hear ya PR and thanks for the clarification. But young folks can grow old and become what you call curmudgeon dealers on the bourse. Let’s see what you are like when you are 75 ?:

I know a few that fit the description. But, I accept the diversity of personalities in numismatics. There are some characteristics that could be criticized as well for early career, younger dealers, but everyone is different and I think that is okay, 'you be you' is my mantra…………….

Best, SH

jedm

@PeakRarities said:
For shops You have companies Like Acousha, Americana, and many more recently opened shops from people in the 30-40 range. I honestly think the younger guys have it all over the older generation with respect to customer service.

I've done business with both of the businesses you mentioned by name recently and am in complete agreement.

I enjoy the youtube videos posted by the Acousha guys as well.

CRHer700

I would say that the average age is somewhere in the mid fifties. Most, but not all of the younger folks are working for or with older dealers.

PerryHall

I've been collecting coins for over 60 years. I've been to many coins shows and I've belonged to several coin clubs over the years. The average age of coin collectors and dealers is about the same today as it was when I first started collecting coins.

BLUEJAYWAY

The show that I visit from time to time is about 50+ in years. Stamp show the same.

Catbert

There are a lot of young dealers on Instagram and many of us old guys would be surprised at the amount of activity, coin quality, and transaction ease found there!

PeakRarities

@spacehayduke said:

@PeakRarities said:
And I edited my prior comment to be more clear, but does anyone realize how many people are NOT coin collectors because of their bad experiences with the type of coin dealers I’m referring to? I see Google reviews all the time of people who had an interest in starting to collect coins, but their lcs was rude and unwelcoming, so with no local business to give them guidance they just decide ti leave the hobby.

Again, SH, I wish you would consider trying to understand what I’m saying instead of taking umbrage every time you read something that sounds a certain way. Not all of my posts are well manicured essays that I proof read, I’m busy working all day and spit out quick thoughts sometimes with poor phrasing or word choice, things don’t come out the right way. Everyone on this forum knows damn well what I’m talking about, my first experience as a collector was getting sold a cleaned seated quarter in vf for like $100 when I later found out it was a $20 coin. There are plenty of those guys, of all ages, that have shops. They single handedly do more damage to the hobby than you would like to admit, and in my opinion, if you’re not capable of being professional and treating people with respect, you shouldn’t be a business owner. Or at the very least, hire someone else to work the counter.

I hear ya PR and thanks for the clarification. But young folks can grow old and become what you call curmudgeon dealers on the bourse. Let’s see what you are like when you are 75 ?:

I know a few that fit the description. But, I accept the diversity of personalities in numismatics. There are some characteristics that could be criticized as well for early career, younger dealers, but everyone is different and I think that is okay, 'you be you' is my mantra…………….

Best, SH

Now here's the thing, I am fully aware that those types of dealers come in all ages. And what the older generation has over my generation, is knowledge and experience. Alot of the new crop of kids do not know how to recognize quality, and they don't know diddly squat about collecting nice examples. they are more concerned with the price and whether or not its "under bid". Theyll happily buy pos overgraded AU53 that should be a 45, but because it was a "discount", they'll buy it and think they got a good deal when in reality they just overpaid for a. bright dipped xf45.

The old timers (many of them) know how to grade well, and they're not as reliant on the slab. I have also met many old timers who can not grade to save their life, and they are just as dependent on the pcgs opinion.

All in all, I am not fond of any dealer of any age that conducts themselves poorly and is a detriment to the community, hostility towards customers, ripping people off, etc. It just so happens that my experiences are more frequently with the older grumpy guys, but some of the 40 year old dealers are wolves in sheep clothingused car salesman whos only concern is lining their pocket, at the expense of the collector who they convince to trust them.