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Copper 1943D cent?

erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

Non-magnetic and weight seems right. What do you guys think? It's not my coin and a friend brought it to me to look at. Is it authentic??

Comments

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,542 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The three in the date doesn't look right.
    Compare:
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1943-d-1c/2714

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ms71 said:
    The three in the date doesn't look right.
    Compare:
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1943-d-1c/2714

    What do you think does not look right? I did not see any tooling or marks that would make me think it had another date that was altered.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2024 10:28AM

    Looks legit enough to send in to our hosts, that is exciting. Will you trade it for a new ford?

    The date looks fine to me, so do the details, color and strike. My guess is it has a shot at legit but due to what it is, one needs it in hand with TPG blessings. If me I would take it to Sullivan numismatics at a show and if they like it then straight to pcgs

    Note the 43 d is unique in copper so that’s going against you.

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:
    Looks legit enough to send in to our hosts, that is exciting. Will you trade it for a new ford?

    The date looks fine to me, so do the details and strike. My guess is legit but do to what it is one needs it in hand with TPG blessings. If me I would take it to Sullivan numismatics at a show and if they like it then straight to pcgs

    Note the 43 d is unique in copper so that’s going against you.

    I told my friend the same thing that it would HAVE to be authenticated. I did say that I would post it here to see what a few of the experts here had to say.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2024 10:25AM

    @SullivanNumismatics @erwindoc The other one sold for almost two million and is the most expensive small cent ever sold so I know one person for sure who is rooting against you to double the population. Good luck either way OP

  • .... Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭

    40 made with 27 known…wow! What a find that would be. Retirement for the owner! 😉

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks off to me. Maybe a struck counterfeit.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    die struck counterfeit

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    die struck counterfeit

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    Looks off to me. Maybe a struck counterfeit.

    What do you two see that make you think this? I thought the quality of the planchet was fine. The details are sharp enough too. Could be the lack of my photography skills showing.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2024 10:53AM

    I don't like the letters on the reverse.

    Given that there are a million counterfeits for every one real one... may the odds be ever in your favor.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
    $2.40 | COPY REPLICA 1943-D Lincoln Wheat Cent Penny
    https://a.aliexpress.com/_mspoFc0

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you want a 1943-S

    Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
    $2.99 | Antique crafts American 1943 S version 1 cent Lincoln coin silver dollar silver round
    https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKAOeuM

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,542 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ms71 said:
    The three in the date doesn't look right.
    Compare:
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1943-d-1c/2714

    Look closely at the upper loop of the 3 in the date, In your photo, the top loop is much more open, In the coinfacts image I linked, the top loop is much tighter; i.e., more nearly closed.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bubbling around the portrait.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,018 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2024 11:00AM


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ms71 said:

    @ms71 said:
    The three in the date doesn't look right.
    Compare:
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1943-d-1c/2714

    Look closely at the upper loop of the 3 in the date, In your photo, the top loop is much more open, In the coinfacts image I linked, the top loop is much tighter; i.e., more nearly closed.

    I can certainly see that now you have pointed it out. I will tell my friend. I had high hopes for him since it passed the magnet test and weighed good. Lots of good experts here! Thanks everyone!

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The mint mark is farther away too since @jesbroken posted them together

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @knovak1976 said:
    40 made with 27 known…wow! What a find that would be. Retirement for the owner! 😉

    It’s unknown how many 1943 bronze cents were produced. And with respect to the 1943-D, I believe that only one has been authenticated.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,914 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As stated by others, Asian struck counterfeit.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,110 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, that is one of the better counterfeits.

    Had me a bit puzzled until I came upon Fred's post.

    peacockcoins

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Counterfeit

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • .... Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @knovak1976 said:
    40 made with 27 known…wow! What a find that would be. Retirement for the owner! 😉

    It’s unknown how many 1943 bronze cents were produced. And with respect to the 1943-D, I believe that only one has been authenticated.

    You’re absolutely right Mark! Thanks for the correction…..AMPEX lists 40 made with 27 known specimens for 1943’s according to their website…and the one shown here is a D.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,678 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In cases like this where the coin is (likely) a modern counterfeit, I have to wonder where the collector got it from in the first place. It wasn't like it descended down through the generations in an old collection.

    Not too long ago someone bought that coin from a shady Chinese seller for next to nothing. How did it enter polite society as a possible genuine coin? 🤔

  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pretty much the same conclusion you got when you posted it on the NGC forum,
    it is counterfeit. Now you can tell your friend it is definitely counterfeit.

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    In cases like this where the coin is (likely) a modern counterfeit, I have to wonder where the collector got it from in the first place. It wasn't like it descended down through the generations in an old collection.

    Not too long ago someone bought that coin from a shady Chinese seller for next to nothing. How did it enter polite society as a possible genuine coin? 🤔

    The guy told me he got it in change!

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @knovak1976 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @knovak1976 said:
    40 made with 27 known…wow! What a find that would be. Retirement for the owner! 😉

    It’s unknown how many 1943 bronze cents were produced. And with respect to the 1943-D, I believe that only one has been authenticated.

    You’re absolutely right Mark! Thanks for the correction…..AMPEX lists 40 made with 27 known specimens for 1943’s according to their website…and the one shown here is a D.

    You’re certainly welcome. I have no idea where they obtained those numbers.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • .... Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2024 12:58AM

    @MFeld said:

    @knovak1976 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @knovak1976 said:
    40 made with 27 known…wow! What a find that would be. Retirement for the owner! 😉

    It’s unknown how many 1943 bronze cents were produced. And with respect to the 1943-D, I believe that only one has been authenticated.

    You’re absolutely right Mark! Thanks for the correction…..AMPEX lists 40 made with 27 known specimens for 1943’s according to their website…and the one shown here is a D.

    You’re certainly welcome. I have no idea where they obtained those numbers.

    Here’s where I obtained my information Mark…..

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @knovak1976 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @knovak1976 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @knovak1976 said:
    40 made with 27 known…wow! What a find that would be. Retirement for the owner! 😉

    It’s unknown how many 1943 bronze cents were produced. And with respect to the 1943-D, I believe that only one has been authenticated.

    You’re absolutely right Mark! Thanks for the correction…..AMPEX lists 40 made with 27 known specimens for 1943’s according to their website…and the one shown here is a D.

    You’re certainly welcome. I have no idea where they obtained those numbers.

    Here’s where I obtained my information Mark…..

    Thanks. That's not nearly as bad as I thought. They stated that it was estimated 40 were struck, not that 40
    were struck. And the numbers they used were for 1943, 1943-D and 1943-S bronze cents, combined.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erwindoc said:

    @JBK said:
    In cases like this where the coin is (likely) a modern counterfeit, I have to wonder where the collector got it from in the first place. It wasn't like it descended down through the generations in an old collection.

    Not too long ago someone bought that coin from a shady Chinese seller for next to nothing. How did it enter polite society as a possible genuine coin? 🤔

    The guy told me he got it in change!

    Your friend may actually still have something of value here. Submit it to ICG and if it is counterfeit, they will slab it and use their yellow counterfeit label for it. People do collect counterfeits, and those slabs/labels from ICG are quite popular.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:

    @erwindoc said:

    @JBK said:
    In cases like this where the coin is (likely) a modern counterfeit, I have to wonder where the collector got it from in the first place. It wasn't like it descended down through the generations in an old collection.

    Not too long ago someone bought that coin from a shady Chinese seller for next to nothing. How did it enter polite society as a possible genuine coin? 🤔

    The guy told me he got it in change!

    Your friend may actually still have something of value here. Submit it to ICG and if it is counterfeit, they will slab it and use their yellow counterfeit label for it. People do collect counterfeits, and those slabs/labels from ICG are quite popular.

    People do not collect modern Asian counterfeits. You can buy thousands of these for $2 each, including shipping. See my links above.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,678 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2024 2:26PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @1madman said:

    @erwindoc said:

    @JBK said:
    In cases like this where the coin is (likely) a modern counterfeit, I have to wonder where the collector got it from in the first place. It wasn't like it descended down through the generations in an old collection.

    Not too long ago someone bought that coin from a shady Chinese seller for next to nothing. How did it enter polite society as a possible genuine coin? 🤔

    The guy told me he got it in change!

    Your friend may actually still have something of value here. Submit it to ICG and if it is counterfeit, they will slab it and use their yellow counterfeit label for it. People do collect counterfeits, and those slabs/labels from ICG are quite popular.

    People do not collect modern Asian counterfeits. You can buy thousands of these for $2 each, including shipping. See my links above.

    "Buy the holder, not the coin."

    I'll bet one of these Chinese counterfeits in a yellow ICG slab would sell for more than a raw Chinese counterfeit. Whether the slab premium would outweigh the slabbing fees remains to be seen.

    It would be tempting to find out, though. >:)

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,562 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @1madman said:

    @erwindoc said:

    @JBK said:
    In cases like this where the coin is (likely) a modern counterfeit, I have to wonder where the collector got it from in the first place. It wasn't like it descended down through the generations in an old collection.

    Not too long ago someone bought that coin from a shady Chinese seller for next to nothing. How did it enter polite society as a possible genuine coin? 🤔

    The guy told me he got it in change!

    Your friend may actually still have something of value here. Submit it to ICG and if it is counterfeit, they will slab it and use their yellow counterfeit label for it. People do collect counterfeits, and those slabs/labels from ICG are quite popular.

    People do not collect modern Asian counterfeits. You can buy thousands of these for $2 each, including shipping. See my links above.

    "Buy the holder, not the coin."

    I'll bet one of these Chinese counterfeits in a yellow ICG slab would sell for more than a raw Chinese counterfeit. Whether the slab premium would outweigh the slabbing fees remains to be seen.

    It would be tempting to find out, though. >:)

    It's an interesting question. Does ANACS slab modern counterfeits? Do they note them as such?

  • rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2024 11:31AM

    @erwindoc said:
    The mint mark is farther away too since @jesbroken posted them together

    The mintmark is in a different position on each coin die since they were punched into the dies by hand. I'm not sure if it's more or less likely that two copper planchets would have been struck by the same die. I could make an argument either way.

    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

    http://macrocoins.com
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2024 1:07PM

    @MsMorrisine said:
    die struck counterfeit

    Very convincing die-struck counterfeit 1943 cents are being produced in China. Since 1943 cents are made of steel, they can be hardened and used as hubs to create false dies. Suggest showing it to some experts and get their opinion. If they say it looks good, then send it to one of the major grading services to get it slabbed.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,364 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They could have done it in VF …. might have fooled more people.

  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 781 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    die struck counterfeit

    Very convincing die-struck counterfeit 1943 cents are being produced in China. Since 1943 cents are made of steel, they can be hardened and used as hubs to create false dies. Suggest showing it to some experts and get their opinion. If they say it looks good, then send it to one of the major grading services to get it slabbed.

    @FredWeinberg said:
    The coin is counterfeit

    I think an expert already gave a good opinion...

    Mark

    Mark

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