1830 Bust Half : What Would You Grade This ?

dhikewhitney

I'm trying to understand if these are hairlines from an old wipe or other type of cleaning.
Thank you

hummingbird_coins

XF details cleaned, damage

Walkerguy21D

Cleaned, damaged, VF30 details.
Yes, I believe the hairlines are from a cleaning, or multiple cleanings.

291fifth

Harshly cleaned VF with a nasty mark in a prime visual area on the obverse.

Jacques_Loungecoque

Harshly cleaned is right. Nasty gouge to boot.

Cladiator

To answer the question specifically my bet would be "some other type of cleaning". The cleaning this coin has undergone appears to be much more severe than a mere wiping. From these images the obv looks harshly cleaned at best and the reverse has some argument towards whizzed IMHO. Personally, I do find the hit right of Obv S3 distracting, and the hit below Rev E1 mildly troublesome. I'd grade it a 25/30 based on details. All that being said if it's a rare overton variety jump on it. It's way too late for me to try and attribute a half dollar lol...

edit to add: I learned my lesson long ago to not fail to attribute anything you're involved or interested in.

PeakRarities

Agree with VF deets, not a nice looking coin imo.

@Cladiator said:

It's way too late for me to try and attribute a half dollar lol...

@Davidk7

johnny9434

Fugly, details, cleaned, jmo

Davidk7

VF Details for sure. Looks like O-117 to me

TwoSides2aCoin

AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

PeakRarities

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

It’s an 1830, they come sharp unlike the early years. Even if we’re being harsh, the most I could see it as is XF, but it’s rather irrelevant on this coin. The “luster” seen is largely because it’s scrubbed half to death.

MFeld

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

That coin doesn't exhibit AU details. Here's a PCGS AU details, Cleaned example:

TwoSides2aCoin

@MFeld said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

That coin doesn't exhibit AU details. Here's a PCGS AU details, Cleaned example:

>
That’s a different coin. And until the coin gets submitted and assessed by a TPG grader, the bet is on.

MFeld

@TwoSides2aCoin said:

@MFeld said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

That coin doesn't exhibit AU details. Here's a PCGS AU details, Cleaned example:

>
That’s a different coin. And until the coin gets submitted and assessed by a TPG grader, the bet is on.

Thanks so much for letting us know that's a different coin.

TwoSides2aCoin

Well Mark…. Ever work in a brick and mortar ? I have plenty of people telling me they have a coin they saw online for lots of money that they want to sell. Maybe the same year but it is not the same coin. You’re very welcome Mr Obvious.

MFeld

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Well Mark…. Ever work in a brick and mortar ? I have plenty of people telling me they have a coin they saw online for lots of money that they want to sell. Maybe the same year but it is not the same coin. You’re very welcome Mr Obvious.

I haven't worked at a brick and mortar. But over the years, I've received literally thousands of inquiries from people wanting to sell coins that were the same date (or type) but not the same variety and/or condition. And the coin pictured in the opening post isn't in the same condition as AU Bust Halves are.

Of course, you're free to hold on to the notion that everyone but you was incorrect in their assessment, unless or until the coin's actually submitted for grading and assessed as AU.

Davidk7

As a Bust Half specialist, the example doesn't even sniff AU. It's not XF either, too much reverse wing wear and obverse friction in general.

TwoSides2aCoin

@MFeld said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Well Mark…. Ever work in a brick and mortar ? I have plenty of people telling me they have a coin they saw online for lots of money that they want to sell. Maybe the same year but it is not the same coin. You’re very welcome Mr Obvious.

I haven't worked at a brick and mortar. But over the years, I've received literally thousands of inquiries from people wanting to sell coins that were the same date (or type) but not the same variety and/or condition. And the coin pictured in the opening post isn't in the same condition as AU Bust Halves are.

Of course, you're free to hold on to the notion that everyone but you was incorrect in their assessment, unless or until the coin's actually submitted for grading and assessed as AU.

Where did I imply anyone was incorrect in their assessment, or that I am in mine ?
And who cares what the details are on a piece not worth submitting ? Some problems have no solution.

pcgs69

I’d say vf35 details, cleaned

MFeld

@TwoSides2aCoin said:

@MFeld said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Well Mark…. Ever work in a brick and mortar ? I have plenty of people telling me they have a coin they saw online for lots of money that they want to sell. Maybe the same year but it is not the same coin. You’re very welcome Mr Obvious.

I haven't worked at a brick and mortar. But over the years, I've received literally thousands of inquiries from people wanting to sell coins that were the same date (or type) but not the same variety and/or condition. And the coin pictured in the opening post isn't in the same condition as AU Bust Halves are.

Of course, you're free to hold on to the notion that everyone but you was incorrect in their assessment, unless or until the coin's actually submitted for grading and assessed as AU.

Where did I imply anyone was incorrect in their assessment, or that I am in mine ?
And who cares what the details are on a piece not worth submitting ? Some problems have no solution.

@TwoSides2aCoin said:

"AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars."

jacrispies

@PeakRarities said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

It’s an 1830, they come sharp unlike the early years. Even if we’re being harsh, the most I could see it as is XF, but it’s rather irrelevant on this coin. The “luster” seen is largely because it’s scrubbed half to death.

The yeardate 1830 comes mushy on many varieties and die states, with the left wing showing extreme weakness even in higher grades. I would disagree on a general basis that the 1830 yeardate comes notably more sharp. The late 1820s and early 1830s, with greater advances in steel hardening techniques, allowed the dies to be used for a greater striking duration without severe cracking. As a result, many of the varieties are seen as-made with mushy details and strike weakness.

@TwoSides2aCoin is not wrong. There is luster, one area particularly visible is around the date numerals. But, the luster remains on a later die state coin even in lower circulated grades due to heavier flow lines, such is the case here.

I would say XF Details harshly cleaned.

PeakRarities

@jacrispies said:

@PeakRarities said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
AU details ( cleaned/ damaged ). You guys are harsher than the problem. I see plenty of luster among the stars. ( even so, I would not submit coin just to win a bet ).

It’s an 1830, they come sharp unlike the early years. Even if we’re being harsh, the most I could see it as is XF, but it’s rather irrelevant on this coin. The “luster” seen is largely because it’s scrubbed half to death.

The yeardate 1830 comes mushy on many varieties and die states, with the left wing showing extreme weakness even in higher grades. I would disagree on a general basis that the 1830 yeardate comes notably more sharp. The late 1820s and early 1830s, with greater advances in steel hardening techniques, allowed the dies to be used for a greater striking duration without severe cracking. As a result, many of the varieties are seen as-made with mushy details and strike weakness.

@TwoSides2aCoin is not wrong. There is luster, one area particularly visible is around the date numerals. But, the luster remains on a later die state coin even in lower circulated grades due to heavier flow lines, such is the case here.

I would say XF Details harshly cleaned.

Well, you know exponentially more about the series than I do, so I would conceed to your expertise. I just looked in coinfacts and saw that alot of the higher grade coins had sharp definition, compared to the early dates that I have trouble with sometimes.

But yea, I could see XF, I had it on the VF/XF line so I went low because of the cleaning.

jacrispies

@Davidk7 said:
As a Bust Half specialist, the example doesn't even sniff AU. It's not XF either, too much reverse wing wear and obverse friction in general.

Strike weakness vs wear, about as tough as an issue as figuring out how women think.

PeakRarities

@jacrispies said:

@Davidk7 said:
As a Bust Half specialist, the example doesn't even sniff AU. It's not XF either, too much reverse wing wear and obverse friction in general.

Strike weakness vs wear, about as tough as an issue as figuring out how women think.

There's no schooling, courses, seminars, or certifications that would effectively teach that...🤣

dhikewhitney

Outstanding conversation; lots of good info; thank you everyone for contributing.

constitutional_halve

Belt Sander-35

braddick

Probably not as offensive in hand, but yeah- VF35 cleaned/damage.

RobertScotLover

typical dealer inventory awaiting a newbeeb to pay for his intuition

BigAl

_ I'm trying to understand if these are hairlines from an old wipe or other type of cleaning._

I don’t know that it really matters as the coin is obviously harshly cleaned. Steer clear of the shiny, clean looking circulated coins (unless you like these coins) as they are usually cleaned to the point that they are not considered market acceptable, meaning they will not receive a straight grade. I’m glad you asked the folks on this forum for opinions.

I’m in the VF details camp

jacrispies

@RobertScotLover said:
typical dealer inventory awaiting a newbeeb to pay for his intuition

Little does the dealer know she's got doubled edge lettering and I cherrypicked HIM!!! Mwahahaha

dhikewhitney

Update: I returned the coin and am satisfied.