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The QB that keeps on giving

spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

Man O’Man, I am thankful for CJ Stroud, give credit to the Tejanos for trading Watson to the Browns for all of their future draft picks. Means one team will be bad for a decade, and the Tejanos are rising with the best QB out of the draft 2 years ago. LOL Cleveland, Watson shows himself again (literally), in the latest lawsuit for sexual misconduct. Yikes.

Best, SH

My online coin store - https://www.desertmoonnm.com/

Comments

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭✭

    Youngs in a terrible spot with the Panthers. I would have tried to convince the Panthers I am not very good lol

    I do really respect the Texans though with the approach they have taken. Stroud on a podcast talked about how they sat down with him and designed an offense that he was comfortable with instead of trying to make him fit what they wanted to do. Certainly helps they already had some weapons and then went out and got more

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s amazing the turn around after the dumpster fire just a few years ago.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,631 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Smart of the Texans to design the offense around Stroud and what he was most familiar with.

    The Texans looked good last year, maybe they will be better this year

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if other "bust" QB's of the past would have turned out better had their head coaches designed offenses around them instead of forcing them into the current offense.
    thinking guys like Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Andre Ware etc.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I wonder if other "bust" QB's of the past would have turned out better had their head coaches designed offenses around them instead of forcing them into the current offense.
    thinking guys like Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Andre Ware etc.

    Or the opposite. What if the Bears drafted Mahomes instead of Trubisky? Would Mahomes be held in the same regard he is now?

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭

    Young just doesn't look like an NFL quarterback. His 1st pass of the year had nothing to do with lack of talent around him and more to do with being too small and simply not a very accurate passer.

    Doesn't mean he won't put something together at some point but not looking good so far.

    Robb

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    Young just doesn't look like an NFL quarterback. His 1st pass of the year had nothing to do with lack of talent around him and more to do with being too small and simply not a very accurate passer.

    Doesn't mean he won't put something together at some point but not looking good so far.

    Robb

    I didnt see the first pass and hes not the ideal height. I know there is a difference between college and the NFL but his O line at Alabama was NFL height and a lot of those guys did go to the NFL. Hes played behind guys this size before and its very difficult when you have nothing that scares a defense with WRs that struggle to ever create separation

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I wonder if other "bust" QB's of the past would have turned out better had their head coaches designed offenses around them instead of forcing them into the current offense.
    thinking guys like Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Andre Ware etc.

    I do think that does play a big role in why so many QBs end up being busts. Talent and blocking obviously matters but it seems like theres some teams that succeed with any QB and others that try and force someone into a system that just fail consistently at it

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭

    WRs that struggle to ever create separation

    Diontae Johnson has the best open score of any WR in the NFL the last 2 years, so Panthers did try and get Young some help.

    In the game on Sunday, Young just made a lot of bad throws that can't be blamed on his O-line or WRs. We will see how Young does over the course of the season but watching parts of that game, my takeaway was that he isn't NFL caliber.
    Doesn't mean that he won't improve, he has to have some talent to have succeeded at Alabama. But the number of quarterbacks that were great in college and terrible to mediocre in the NFL is really high.

    No one actually knows what translates from college to NFL for QBs as evidenced by the number of 1st round QB flops taken in the NFL draft. Most years you can take the top 5 QBs drafted, put their names on a dart board, blindfold yourself, and be able to predict their level of NFL success as accurately as analysts, draft experts, QB gurus, etc.

    Personally, I don't think the primary issue is scheme but rather the ability for the QB to diagnose the defense pre-snap and their accuracy/ball placement. The windows in the NFL are totally different than what QBs see in college. There are far more plays where a QB has to throw a WR open or anticipate the window in the NFL. In college, WRs are running free with feet of separation from the nearest DB. That just rarely happens in the NFL.

    Robb

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @fergie23 said:
    Young just doesn't look like an NFL quarterback. His 1st pass of the year had nothing to do with lack of talent around him and more to do with being too small and simply not a very accurate passer.

    Doesn't mean he won't put something together at some point but not looking good so far.

    Robb

    I didnt see the first pass and hes not the ideal height. I know there is a difference between college and the NFL but his O line at Alabama was NFL height and a lot of those guys did go to the NFL. Hes played behind guys this size before and its very difficult when you have nothing that scares a defense with WRs that struggle to ever create separation

    I remember the discussion about height prior to the draft of Young and Stroud, the latter being normal NFL qb height, the former being shorter. The shorter QB’s have to have spectacular scrambling ability and/or an O-line with no weaknesses to give Shorty a chance to do well. Does not look like Young has either. OTH, is the offense he is in designed to enhance his particular skill set?

    My online coin store - https://www.desertmoonnm.com/
  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    WRs that struggle to ever create separation

    Diontae Johnson has the best open score of any WR in the NFL the last 2 years, so Panthers did try and get Young some help.

    In the game on Sunday, Young just made a lot of bad throws that can't be blamed on his O-line or WRs. We will see how Young does over the course of the season but watching parts of that game, my takeaway was that he isn't NFL caliber.
    Doesn't mean that he won't improve, he has to have some talent to have succeeded at Alabama. But the number of quarterbacks that were great in college and terrible to mediocre in the NFL is really high.

    No one actually knows what translates from college to NFL for QBs as evidenced by the number of 1st round QB flops taken in the NFL draft. Most years you can take the top 5 QBs drafted, put their names on a dart board, blindfold yourself, and be able to predict their level of NFL success as accurately as analysts, draft experts, QB gurus, etc.

    Personally, I don't think the primary issue is scheme but rather the ability for the QB to diagnose the defense pre-snap and their accuracy/ball placement. The windows in the NFL are totally different than what QBs see in college. There are far more plays where a QB has to throw a WR open or anticipate the window in the NFL. In college, WRs are running free with feet of separation from the nearest DB. That just rarely happens in the NFL.

    Robb

    There is something to what you say here, and the question is what is it about skill set and size that does not commonly transfer well from college to the NFL for qbs? One key metric is size. I was hoping for the Panthers to take Young over Stroud bc of that single issue, and they did thankfully. Chances are simply much better if the qb meets the physical metrics of a successful NFL qb.

    Now we can look at this years 1rst rounders. None of them so far are knocking the socks off of defenses. Nix was chased all over the field and it clearly affected how he played, I did not see the others. Denver plays Pittsburg this week, I feel for Bo………..

    My online coin store - https://www.desertmoonnm.com/
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭✭

    @spacehayduke said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @fergie23 said:
    Young just doesn't look like an NFL quarterback. His 1st pass of the year had nothing to do with lack of talent around him and more to do with being too small and simply not a very accurate passer.

    Doesn't mean he won't put something together at some point but not looking good so far.

    Robb

    I didnt see the first pass and hes not the ideal height. I know there is a difference between college and the NFL but his O line at Alabama was NFL height and a lot of those guys did go to the NFL. Hes played behind guys this size before and its very difficult when you have nothing that scares a defense with WRs that struggle to ever create separation

    I remember the discussion about height prior to the draft of Young and Stroud, the latter being normal NFL qb height, the former being shorter. The shorter QB’s have to have spectacular scrambling ability and/or an O-line with no weaknesses to give Shorty a chance to do well. Does not look like Young has either. OTH, is the offense he is in designed to enhance his particular skill set?

    I dont love Youngs height but he had proved he could play behind NFL sized lineman and its not really a concern to me like if he had come out of a G5 school with smaller linemen.

    Im not sure a scheme could even fix it with Carolina. I really dont understand what the plan was with trading McCaffery and then giving up a kings ransom that included a very good WR to trade up ruining a couple drafts and starting him right away.

    I think we would likely be having these same conversations in a different way if the Panthers had taken Stroud and Young went to the Texans

    Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007

  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I wonder if other "bust" QB's of the past would have turned out better had their head coaches designed offenses around them instead of forcing them into the current offense.
    thinking guys like Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, Andre Ware etc.

    Ware actually went to a team running his college system, the run n shoot. He just proved to be an incredibly inaccurate passer.

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭

    Look at that, it turns out the Panthers are not nearly as bad as Bryce Young made them appear. Dalton had over 300 yards passing and 3 TDs, Johnson had 100+ yards receiving. All they needed was a QB that didn't suck.

    Doesn't mean they are going to win a bunch of games or anything but their anemic offense the first two games was the result of poor QB performance not issues with the other offensive playmakers or line.

    Going forward, I imagine the Panthers will struggle when Dalton plays poorly and be a serviceable offense when he plays average or better. While a good defensive game plan will stop the Panthers (Dalton's not actually a very good QB), at least now teams will have to execute on defense against the Panthers rather than just banking on Young being terrible.

    Robb

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭

    With the trade of Johnson and Theilen on IR, it would now be accurate to say that a rookie or 2nd year QB has very little chance to succeed with the Panthers.

    I guess the Panthers have decided to go all in with their rebuild, I imagine Young will be traded before the draft next year.

    Robb

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