Post a coin you believe to be NT that got called “Questionable Color”
DrewU
Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
Recent eBay purchase that I’m really enjoying. Regardless of the QC qualifier, I believe in this one as NT. I think the remnants of the thumbprint tells the story of the coin being pushed into an album or one of those cheap cardboard framed 20th century type sets, that also would explain the toning pattern on the reverse. Fun coin regardless.
So what coins that you know or believe to be naturally toned got bounced back by a TPG? And good redemption stories from a subsequent regrade attempt?
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Orrrr the oils reacted different than the rest of the patina during the accelerant process. Toning is funny, when you like it one can always make up a scenario that makes sense to them how it’s “legit”
That said it is worth repeating. it isn’t really NT (natural) or AT (Artificial), it’s market acceptable or not market acceptable. That coin is too wild or atypical for PCGS to consistently endorse with a straight grade. Copper nickel simply needs some juice to look like that, trying to ascertain how it got that juice be it intentionally or accidentally is a fools errand.
I’ll play slightly differently, this came back cleaned. I think it deserves a straight VF grade despite the old dip. Lots of lightened cir coins in straight holders.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Crypto what an awesome coin!
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The coin in the OP is AT all day long, in my opinion and experience.
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Very good point by @Crypto - toning is merely market acceptable or not. How the TPGs make that determination is beyond me, but I'd say that they made a pretty good call on the OP coin. I'd lean a little further and say that one leans more towards certainly AT.
Coin Photographer.
I also viewed the Eisenhower dollar on an auction site and in viewing the other offerings from the seller would also conclude easily the coin is AT.
Enjoy it, but don't pretend it is something the experts have deemed it not to be.
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The PCGS 1974-D Ike looks real nice. My fav of ones shown so far. My other fav the 75-CC Trade Dollar / looks nice, PQ.
Bought here on the Forum in 2007 in a PCI holder
It came back AT from our host.
Tried again a year later and now it's in PCGS AU55
I enjoy its iridescence...
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Nice coin here! Gotta love those sparkly blueberries. Glad you got it into a straight-graded holder where (I believe) it belongs.
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This one really bothers me as I bought the coin in the early 80’s from a very well known coin dealer/auction house. Probably going to crack it out and retry as another member suggested…..
I've always been perplexed by the plain "Genuine" label. What do you think they thought was wrong with it?
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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I love copper that when you look directly at the coin it shows copper, but when you tilt it ever just so, beautiful blues and greens appear. The trouble with AT vs NT is intent. Did the collector place in an album knowing it would tone or was it by accident. Placing in an envelope on purpose for toning or for storage. Makes it difficult to determine, sometimes. Now if colors appear that never or hardly ever appear then maybe a professional can decide. I cannot. Sometimes I think how did that happen, but I would not know. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
QC??? All I know is that it has looked the same since at least 1970 when plated in Overton.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rs8199/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
In 2022 I sent in to our host a 1950 Proof Cent and a 1960 Proof Cent, both toned with multiple colors and both with frosted devices and mirrored fields under the toning.
The 1950 did not straight grade (Questionable Color) and the 1960 did straight grade.
IMO both should either straight grade, or they both should not straight grade due to Questionable Color.
What do you think?
I think you got better date conservatismed by the graders. I’m ok with that color
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
This is a tough one, but as I was scrolling, I saw the 1950 first and (without reading anything you had written) my first thought was that the copper's red (not toning) looked to be a very light in color, and perhaps a bit pinkish. I could say that the green and blue look a bit "off" as well, but the red is what struck me first. To that end, I wonder if the graders thought the coin's surface weren't fully natural (dipped or otherwise treated) prior to the color developing. While the 1960 color is more extensive and vibrant, the shades look a bit more normal for what I'm used to seeing on toned copper. I'll grant that we aren't talking major differences, and of course I'm saying this to justify what I know PCGS already said, not to mention I'm doing this from photos which, if slightly off in shades, could completely ruin my conjecture.
I submitted several silver Eagles to PCGS a few years ago that were blast white. Two of them have toned in my safe deposit box. Did something affect them at PCGS or is this just happenstance? The toning is exactly the same on the reverse side.
Nice and crusty, I like 👍
I've heard that, over the years on this forum, and I disagree. You can have NT that happens even with intent. Putting a silver coin in a cardboard holder, meant for storage/viewing, that causes toning after awhile isn't necessary AT imho, even though there is intent to put it there even knowing it may tone.
Unintentionally having silver coins that may going through a washer cycle with detergent, causing toning that isn't natural nor natural looking, due to the chemicals, isn't NT either. Even though there was no intent to tone them.
Extreme examples? Maybe. But it shows that the simple statement isn't that simple.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
They told me ‘questionable color’……although a few dealers at the Tampa show today said to crack it out and resubmit it. Probably not worth the cost though.
Initially the details coins all had those genuine labels. Looking up the cert number tells you the problem. You can also tell by the code before the cert number:
This went from Unc Details QC to AU 58:
Both look market acceptable and I would expect to be straight graded more times than not.
Sorry, I in no way intended to presume nor present that AT vs NT was simple. I said its a trouble that intent can change the acceptability of the outcome of a beautifully toned coin or even a not so beautifully toned coin. I, perhaps, did not make that point as evident as I intended. Due to the increased value of many of our coins, doctoring can be very lucrative and coin doctors are becoming very inventive with their processes. I assume that is a reason the the TPG's are so stringent on grading them. Thank you for pointing out my error.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I knew there was a chance this one would come back as questionable, but was hoping it come out straight graded. What made me suspicious it that, if it isn’t under a bright light you can see a circular area around Liberty that almost looks like something was painted on. I remember buying it raw at a show long ago where I looked at it under a light and didn’t notice the painted on looking circle until I looked at it again back home. I submitted about 15 years later mainly to see what PCGS thought of it.
Mr_Spud
I’ve shared this a long time ago as it baffled me as to why it came back questionable color.
I’ll try again one of these months, or years, or ATS.
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Most of my collection is comprised of toned peace dollars. This one is very borderline. I think the true essence of questionable. I have several that have this appearance that are straight-graded.
@split37
Wow, perfect crescent toning on both sides with the same color pattern, agree questionable and highly unlikely NT. But I like the look and if at the right price I would purchase.
I do believe DrewU has risen from the dead...
Good to see you post brother!!! How is life?
All good Jim.
I didn't think YOU meant it to be so simple, but I think some would read it that way and think it was so simple, unless they had the experience that you, and others, do over years.
That's why I wanted to call it out with extreme examples because I have heard, over the years, the same argument and some of the less time-learned people actually believe it and argue it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment