QBR is a flawed stat as are all of the advanced stats used in isolation. They show their ugly head of how flawed they are quite often if its the only thing someone considers
@bgr said:
I didn’t watch the game. I don’t know the details of how QBR is calculated but I do understand it to be a normalized statistic. Would an average QB have done a little better than Young and a bit worse than Mahomes?
I definitely thought Young was well above average. KC couldn’t get him off the field on third downs, even third and ten, third and twelve etc.
Like I said they got pressure in his face several times where he made a pinpoint pass to a receiver.
I do remember Craig saying regarding QBR that he doesn’t trust a formula where they don’t release the details of how it’s calculated and I’m starting to lean that way myself.
It’s starting to look like if you have a rushing touchdown, that’s the key for getting a high QBR grade. I can’t explain it any other way when you compare Tua’s stats to Baker Mayfields.
@galaxy27 said:
ok Tua went 29/40, 317, 4 TD, 0 INT
QBR: 59.5
50 is supposed to be average from what they say about it, Im really not sure why Tua should have been so close to average according to that. Theres definitely some sort of disconnect between performance and what QBR ends up saying.
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
@perkdog said:
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
I agree, also silly to tie the rating to sacks, even Mahomes gets sacked with a bad O line. Dropped passes should be factored in as well.
I REALLY hate to say it, but a few of the Vikings wins over the Packers was because of perfectly thrown balls by Rogers that were dropped.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@perkdog said:
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
Would it really make sense though for a rushing TD to mean more than a passing one? Its still worth the same amount of points and even guys like Peyton and Rivers who might be the slowest players ever would run for TDs some times. Then you have hurts who racks up a ton of TDs on very small gains with the butt push. TDs seem like something that should be counted for what it is, yards seem like a better measure in terms of the running aspect.
Itll never happen but Ive long though that QBs and WRs should have separate stats. Passing yards should just be where the ball is caught then run after catch yards should be something different. You have QBs getting drafted in the first round now when they spent their college career getting throwing 5 yard passes and a RB or WR breaking off a big run after the catch
These catch all stats just never do a good job. The more they try and claim they account for the worse they are at actually doing it
@perkdog said:
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
Would it really make sense though for a rushing TD to mean more than a passing one? Its still worth the same amount of points and even guys like Peyton and Rivers who might be the slowest players ever would run for TDs some times. Then you have hurts who racks up a ton of TDs on very small gains with the butt push. TDs seem like something that should be counted for what it is, yards seem like a better measure in terms of the running aspect.
Itll never happen but Ive long though that QBs and WRs should have separate stats. Passing yards should just be where the ball is caught then run after catch yards should be something different. You have QBs getting drafted in the first round now when they spent their college career getting throwing 5 yard passes and a RB or WR breaking off a big run after the catch
These catch all stats just never do a good job. The more they try and claim they account for the worse they are at actually doing it
That's not a bad argument, I can get behind the pass yards being air yards only
Of course it's way too late to even think about adjusting career stats but they could come up. with a new stat for air yards thrown and reconfigure QBR that way.
@perkdog said:
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
Would it really make sense though for a rushing TD to mean more than a passing one? Its still worth the same amount of points and even guys like Peyton and Rivers who might be the slowest players ever would run for TDs some times. Then you have hurts who racks up a ton of TDs on very small gains with the butt push. TDs seem like something that should be counted for what it is, yards seem like a better measure in terms of the running aspect.
Itll never happen but Ive long though that QBs and WRs should have separate stats. Passing yards should just be where the ball is caught then run after catch yards should be something different. You have QBs getting drafted in the first round now when they spent their college career getting throwing 5 yard passes and a RB or WR breaking off a big run after the catch
These catch all stats just never do a good job. The more they try and claim they account for the worse they are at actually doing it
That's not a bad argument, I can get behind the pass yards being air yards only
Of course it's way too late to even think about adjusting career stats but they could come up. with a new stat for air yards thrown and reconfigure QBR that way.
Rushing TD's I'm stumped on to be honest
I dont and have never liked seeing the whole QB has 220 yards throwing and the ball was maybe in the air for 20 yards stuff. The one catching the ball is doing it not the QB
I dont think this will happen either but at the very least I would like if they changed it to where the pass has to at least cross the line of scrimmage to be counted as pass yards. No more of the 1 inch forward screen passes being considered pass yards or the hand offs where the QB just takes his hand off the ball technically turning it into a pass stuff.
Rushing yards I really dont have any good ideas either for QBs. I think its best to look at TDs as a TD and maybe do more to separate out sack yards.
I know its just college but ASU in their win over BYU told their QB to just run backwards trying to run the clock out and his rating is being penalized for it. It was stupid being first and goal with 50 seconds left and they got lucky it worked but now instead of having 34 rushing yards hes down to 8 losing over 20 yards doing it
@perkdog said:
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
Would it really make sense though for a rushing TD to mean more than a passing one? Its still worth the same amount of points and even guys like Peyton and Rivers who might be the slowest players ever would run for TDs some times. Then you have hurts who racks up a ton of TDs on very small gains with the butt push. TDs seem like something that should be counted for what it is, yards seem like a better measure in terms of the running aspect.
Itll never happen but Ive long though that QBs and WRs should have separate stats. Passing yards should just be where the ball is caught then run after catch yards should be something different. You have QBs getting drafted in the first round now when they spent their college career getting throwing 5 yard passes and a RB or WR breaking off a big run after the catch
These catch all stats just never do a good job. The more they try and claim they account for the worse they are at actually doing it
Ehhhhh... I get it. On the other hand, a large component of YAC is how good the throw is.
@perkdog said:
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
Would it really make sense though for a rushing TD to mean more than a passing one? Its still worth the same amount of points and even guys like Peyton and Rivers who might be the slowest players ever would run for TDs some times. Then you have hurts who racks up a ton of TDs on very small gains with the butt push. TDs seem like something that should be counted for what it is, yards seem like a better measure in terms of the running aspect.
Itll never happen but Ive long though that QBs and WRs should have separate stats. Passing yards should just be where the ball is caught then run after catch yards should be something different. You have QBs getting drafted in the first round now when they spent their college career getting throwing 5 yard passes and a RB or WR breaking off a big run after the catch
These catch all stats just never do a good job. The more they try and claim they account for the worse they are at actually doing it
Ehhhhh... I get it. On the other hand, a large component of YAC is how good the throw is.
Theres definitely merit to that on down field throws and also how good the WR was at getting open. What about the swing passes or things like that though? Its good for the team but the guy catching the ball is doing the work on the really short passes that turn into long gains
Theres definitely merit to that on down field throws and also how good the WR was at getting open. What about the swing passes or things like that though? Its good for the team but the guy catching the ball is doing the work on the really short passes that turn into long gains
Applies on those, too. Just picture the difference between a slant where the ball is 18" behind where it should be versus one where it's out in front like it should be. Or a swing pass that's knee-high. And so on.
Theres definitely merit to that on down field throws and also how good the WR was at getting open. What about the swing passes or things like that though? Its good for the team but the guy catching the ball is doing the work on the really short passes that turn into long gains
Applies on those, too. Just picture the difference between a slant where the ball is 18" behind where it should be versus one where it's out in front like it should be. Or a swing pass that's knee-high. And so on.
If a QB consistently throws swing passes knee high they really dont belong on the field. Even sometimes when that happens though the pass catcher will still break a long run afterwards and reward the QB with passing yards for a bad through.
A slant would at least be past the line of scrimmage. I know it will almost certainly never go to air yards only, buit I would like to see it at least go to a pass has to go past the lin of scrimmage to be passing yards
I didn’t watch the Chargers-Falcons but don’t understand the QBR in this one either.
Cousins was 24-39, 245 yards, 6.3 avg, 0 TD 4 INT 1 fumble which the falcons recovered. Passer rating 40
QBR 34.4 which seems about right as the numbers say he had a bad game.
Herbert was 16-23, 147 yards, 6.4 avg, 0 TD 0 INT, 0 fumble passer rating 86.7 QBR 27.4 😳
Neither player rushed for more than 3 yards. Herbert was sacked 5 times and Cousins 1 time.
My question is…. what did Herbert do so wrong that his QBR is less than Cousins who had 4 picks and a fumble?
The QBR people must discount drastically if a QB gets sacked and put all the blame on the QB and not the O-line. Herbert did not have an impressive game passing but he didn’t turn the ball over.
I just don’t get it! 🤔
@Darin said:
I didn’t watch the Chargers-Falcons but don’t understand the QBR in this one either.
Cousins was 24-39, 245 yards, 6.3 avg, 0 TD 4 INT 1 fumble which the falcons recovered. Passer rating 40
QBR 34.4 which seems about right as the numbers say he had a bad game.
Herbert was 16-23, 147 yards, 6.4 avg, 0 TD 0 INT, 0 fumble passer rating 86.7 QBR 27.4 😳
Neither player rushed for more than 3 yards. Herbert was sacked 5 times and Cousins 1 time.
My question is…. what did Herbert do so wrong that his QBR is less than Cousins who had 4 picks and a fumble?
The QBR people must discount drastically if a QB gets sacked and put all the blame on the QB and not the O-line. Herbert did not have an impressive game passing but he didn’t turn the ball over.
I just don’t get it! 🤔
and that is the HUGE problem with QBR, unless you work for ESPN, you cannot know how they came to those conclusions. I have very little to no use for a metric that I cannot replicate or at least know how it was calculated. I dont trust it or use it.
I think that any metric that attempts to include some sort of degree of difficulty into its calculation is failed from the start. You are wading into "sports" like synchronized water dancing and figure skating where little is objective.
I will not rely on a metric that attempts to calculate how "difficult" a pass is or exactly how much pressure the defensive line is putting on the QB. there is no objective standard. what I think is a difficult pass may not be to you and what I consider lots of defensive pressure may be tip-toeing through the daisies to another viewer.
@Darin said:
I didn’t watch the Chargers-Falcons but don’t understand the QBR in this one either.
Cousins was 24-39, 245 yards, 6.3 avg, 0 TD 4 INT 1 fumble which the falcons recovered. Passer rating 40
QBR 34.4 which seems about right as the numbers say he had a bad game.
Herbert was 16-23, 147 yards, 6.4 avg, 0 TD 0 INT, 0 fumble passer rating 86.7 QBR 27.4 😳
Neither player rushed for more than 3 yards. Herbert was sacked 5 times and Cousins 1 time.
My question is…. what did Herbert do so wrong that his QBR is less than Cousins who had 4 picks and a fumble?
The QBR people must discount drastically if a QB gets sacked and put all the blame on the QB and not the O-line. Herbert did not have an impressive game passing but he didn’t turn the ball over.
I just don’t get it! 🤔
and that is the HUGE problem with QBR, unless you work for ESPN, you cannot know how they came to those conclusions. I have very little to no use for a metric that I cannot replicate or at least know how it was calculated. I dont trust it or use it.
Craig I remember you saying that before and I do agree with you now.
wanna see something funny? go find Baker Mayfield's QBR from yesterday's game. i'm not even going to tell you what it was, i want you to dig it up
i'd love to know what it would have been had he not engineered a drive in 30 seconds that tied the game at the end of regulation, then drove the team down the field in OT and won it
@galaxy27 said:
wanna see something funny? go find Baker Mayfield's QBR from yesterday's game. i'm not even going to tell you what it was, i want you to dig it up
i'd love to know what it would have been had he not engineered a drive in 30 seconds that tied the game at the end of regulation, then drove the team down the field in OT and won it
QBR = quick brain relapse
That is a perfect example as to why QBR is a junk metric. we will never know what his QBR would have been in that hypothetical because we do not know how to calculate it. nor how to accurately judge how difficult certain situations should be considered.
Comments
QBR is a flawed stat as are all of the advanced stats used in isolation. They show their ugly head of how flawed they are quite often if its the only thing someone considers
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
ok Tua went 29/40, 317, 4 TD, 0 INT
QBR: 59.5
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I definitely thought Young was well above average. KC couldn’t get him off the field on third downs, even third and ten, third and twelve etc.
Like I said they got pressure in his face several times where he made a pinpoint pass to a receiver.
I do remember Craig saying regarding QBR that he doesn’t trust a formula where they don’t release the details of how it’s calculated and I’m starting to lean that way myself.
This isn’t making sense. Mayfield fumbled twice, didn’t have any passing touchdowns, had one ten yard rushing touchdown and his QBR was 86! 🤔
It’s starting to look like if you have a rushing touchdown, that’s the key for getting a high QBR grade. I can’t explain it any other way when you compare Tua’s stats to Baker Mayfields.
It does not make any sense to me.
50 is supposed to be average from what they say about it, Im really not sure why Tua should have been so close to average according to that. Theres definitely some sort of disconnect between performance and what QBR ends up saying.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
QBR is just a nonsensical. geek stat, I hardly pay any attention to it when looking at who is a having a good season or not.
A rushing TD by a QB would make sense to have more value than a passing TD but again the variables make it undependable to tell the true story
A QB can throw the ball 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage and the receiver runs 99 yards for a TD and the QB gets 99 yards passing which in my mind isn't as good as a QB who throws a perfect laser beam for a TD in the red zone between multiple defenders
Another look is a QB who runs for 3 crucial first downs should have more value than a QB who sneaks it in for a 1 inch TD unless it's a 4th try and the RB got stuffed the previous 3 times
I think the variables need to be worked on to give situational value to stats
I agree, also silly to tie the rating to sacks, even Mahomes gets sacked with a bad O line. Dropped passes should be factored in as well.
I REALLY hate to say it, but a few of the Vikings wins over the Packers was because of perfectly thrown balls by Rogers that were dropped.
Would it really make sense though for a rushing TD to mean more than a passing one? Its still worth the same amount of points and even guys like Peyton and Rivers who might be the slowest players ever would run for TDs some times. Then you have hurts who racks up a ton of TDs on very small gains with the butt push. TDs seem like something that should be counted for what it is, yards seem like a better measure in terms of the running aspect.
Itll never happen but Ive long though that QBs and WRs should have separate stats. Passing yards should just be where the ball is caught then run after catch yards should be something different. You have QBs getting drafted in the first round now when they spent their college career getting throwing 5 yard passes and a RB or WR breaking off a big run after the catch
These catch all stats just never do a good job. The more they try and claim they account for the worse they are at actually doing it
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
That's not a bad argument, I can get behind the pass yards being air yards only
Of course it's way too late to even think about adjusting career stats but they could come up. with a new stat for air yards thrown and reconfigure QBR that way.
Rushing TD's I'm stumped on to be honest
I dont and have never liked seeing the whole QB has 220 yards throwing and the ball was maybe in the air for 20 yards stuff. The one catching the ball is doing it not the QB
I dont think this will happen either but at the very least I would like if they changed it to where the pass has to at least cross the line of scrimmage to be counted as pass yards. No more of the 1 inch forward screen passes being considered pass yards or the hand offs where the QB just takes his hand off the ball technically turning it into a pass stuff.
Rushing yards I really dont have any good ideas either for QBs. I think its best to look at TDs as a TD and maybe do more to separate out sack yards.
I know its just college but ASU in their win over BYU told their QB to just run backwards trying to run the clock out and his rating is being penalized for it. It was stupid being first and goal with 50 seconds left and they got lucky it worked but now instead of having 34 rushing yards hes down to 8 losing over 20 yards doing it
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Double post sorry
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Ehhhhh... I get it. On the other hand, a large component of YAC is how good the throw is.
Theres definitely merit to that on down field throws and also how good the WR was at getting open. What about the swing passes or things like that though? Its good for the team but the guy catching the ball is doing the work on the really short passes that turn into long gains
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Applies on those, too. Just picture the difference between a slant where the ball is 18" behind where it should be versus one where it's out in front like it should be. Or a swing pass that's knee-high. And so on.
If a QB consistently throws swing passes knee high they really dont belong on the field. Even sometimes when that happens though the pass catcher will still break a long run afterwards and reward the QB with passing yards for a bad through.
A slant would at least be past the line of scrimmage. I know it will almost certainly never go to air yards only, buit I would like to see it at least go to a pass has to go past the lin of scrimmage to be passing yards
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
I didn’t watch the Chargers-Falcons but don’t understand the QBR in this one either.
Cousins was 24-39, 245 yards, 6.3 avg, 0 TD 4 INT 1 fumble which the falcons recovered. Passer rating 40
QBR 34.4 which seems about right as the numbers say he had a bad game.
Herbert was 16-23, 147 yards, 6.4 avg, 0 TD 0 INT, 0 fumble passer rating 86.7 QBR 27.4 😳
Neither player rushed for more than 3 yards. Herbert was sacked 5 times and Cousins 1 time.
My question is…. what did Herbert do so wrong that his QBR is less than Cousins who had 4 picks and a fumble?
The QBR people must discount drastically if a QB gets sacked and put all the blame on the QB and not the O-line. Herbert did not have an impressive game passing but he didn’t turn the ball over.
I just don’t get it! 🤔
Josh Allen got a QBR of 95 which I completely understand. He played lights out. Purdy 14 QBR, he wasn’t impressive for sure but man that’s low. 🤔
and that is the HUGE problem with QBR, unless you work for ESPN, you cannot know how they came to those conclusions. I have very little to no use for a metric that I cannot replicate or at least know how it was calculated. I dont trust it or use it.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think that any metric that attempts to include some sort of degree of difficulty into its calculation is failed from the start. You are wading into "sports" like synchronized water dancing and figure skating where little is objective.
I will not rely on a metric that attempts to calculate how "difficult" a pass is or exactly how much pressure the defensive line is putting on the QB. there is no objective standard. what I think is a difficult pass may not be to you and what I consider lots of defensive pressure may be tip-toeing through the daisies to another viewer.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Craig I remember you saying that before and I do agree with you now.
wanna see something funny? go find Baker Mayfield's QBR from yesterday's game. i'm not even going to tell you what it was, i want you to dig it up
i'd love to know what it would have been had he not engineered a drive in 30 seconds that tied the game at the end of regulation, then drove the team down the field in OT and won it
QBR = quick brain relapse
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I looked it up Galaxy…. that’s crazy. 🤔
That is a perfect example as to why QBR is a junk metric. we will never know what his QBR would have been in that hypothetical because we do not know how to calculate it. nor how to accurately judge how difficult certain situations should be considered.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.