Identifying ingot markings - post your unknown bars here
dcarr
Posts: 8,420 ✭✭✭✭✭
Maybe this thread could become the place on the internet to get help identifying the makers of ingots.
I'll start with three that I have.
This first one has been posted before and still not identified, but the mark is distinctive enough to where it seems like it should be identifiable. Some sources on the internet speculate that it is "MTE Bell", but I don't think it is the shape of a bell. Other sites call it a "Comstock Mold", but that only identifies the type of mold that it was poured in, not the maker. One other picture I have seen has a similar marking with a "1970" date inside the circle above the "flower" (or whatever it is):
BRC rectangle.
Some sources claim this is "Bahamian Refining Company", but the style of the bar is vastly different than the other "BRC" (script logo) molded bars:
IRS triangle.
I have no info on this bar or who made it:
Comments
Great idea!
I've posted this before... no markings other than .999 and weight. Someone mentioned that they have seen one before (maybe this one?)
Unknown or little known?
AARO
The 999FS stamp is a modern stamp so this bar is probably just a random garage pour from the last 10-20 years.
I dunno, but in hand it looks better than a "garage pour" IMH
First is the same maker as dcarr above. 1970 “MTE BELL”
Second is a unique small bar. Less than an ounce and hollow. The bars are marked as 999, but XRF reports coin silver .900. I reached out to a dealer in the general area and he did not remember seeing any examples come through his shop.
The only other “hollow base” style bar I have seen just sold on MineralX for a large sum of money.
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The "A.G.J." is probably a clue, but still a mystery for now.
$479 for less than 1 oz.
I have seen that "Denver" bar before.
They are not marked "999", so 900 fine is possible.
I have not seen the Teton Peaks type before.
It does look like the same make, just different markings applied.
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AARO Metals Company Sugarland, Texas.
1965 - 2001
Anyone seen this one before?
BA in cursive. with 20 GR & .999 stamp
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
dcarr: oh wow you picked the tough ones.
1) My best guess is that it may have been someone that contracted World Mint Corp to make the bars. Purely speculation and the stamp has never been ID'd as far as I know. It is called the mte bell-- i assume just from how it looks. I really don't see the mte part.
this 'bell' stamp appears on 3 varities of bars that I am aware of. These Comstock bars look like world mint to me but I don't see a lot of people talk about that. The stamp also appears on a very different World Mint-looking bar. and another i haven't looked closely at.
The earliest I have on world mint is 1969 in los angeles. the YCE bars I also have a 1969 ad for. Their early history is a bit of a mystery I believe. Corporate headquarters would have been in Phoenix in the 70s and the company got around. It seems they also used agents and affiliates a bit liberally.
2) My guess is Bahamian Refining Company but haven't seen 100% proof. That's what they are usually labeled.
These BRC bars are likely made by the same refiner as the fancy logo 1 oz eagle bars. I'm basing this on a fairly recent FB group post from a user who said that a family member purchased the items via a friend through a company they liked to order from. He did not have the receipts but had both varieties pictures together. and some of them were not common examples. He had some fractional gold pieces. I have an ad from them mentioning fractional gold jewelry bars of a different weight, I believe. There is a letterhead from the company with their address that can be viewed with BRC logo and box around it. it is towards the bottom:
http://docs.azgs.az.gov/OnlineAccessmineFiles/M-R/MineralhillLapaz278-3.pdf
3) something obscure I'm sure, never seen
I tried to type this up quickly. Hope you can understand, I'll answer Q's if you have any
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Thanks for that. I believe it is conclusive proof that the "BRC" rectangle is the Bahamian Refining Corporation of Phoenix Arizona.
The World Mint silver bars that I have seen are either 1-oz stamped "art bars", or 1, 5, or 10 oz sheared slabs with a globe outline imprinted on them. I have not seen any World Mint poured-style bars.
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Bel Air Mint. Lots of old auction results on worthpoint.com
what's the square with a diagonal line thru it on liberty smelting & refining silver bar's mean ? ( aka liberty mint )
I found this example of a world mint 10oz poured bar on vintagepouredbar. The shape and overall appearance is identical to my example above.
The square and cross was the company logo for Liberty Smelting & Refining, Inc. They made a 1oz round that also had the logo and the name of the owner Joe Felts.
My thought first when I saw 999FS was indeed a modern pour by one of the current individuals that are making bullion.
I know two people personally that make bars and use that same exact stamp or one similar, like this:
Made by a friend who has moved to Puerto Rico now, I’m not sure if he’s still making them but he made this back in 2020:
I personally watched him meltdown, a royal Canadian mint 10 ounce silver bar to use, to make his own personal pour, I know, it’s easier to sell the RCM bar, but I really wanted one of his bars before he moved away and the extreme purity of the bar caused it to crystallize when it was poured, and it is one of the prettiest bars I’ve ever owned!
My YouTube Channel
Great idea for a thread by the way, here are a few I have that are vintage, they may be identified, they may not be, but they are ones that came to mind when I saw this thread title:
I have a few that are unknown, but are almost certainly modern, I won’t add those cause 1 million and one people are making these things nowadays and, if it’s a modern but cool bar, I’ll still pick them up because they are fun!
Here are some of my vintage bars from the collection:
My YouTube Channel
And just for contrast, here are some of the unknown, but almost certainly modern ones:
some are known to me
My YouTube Channel
The "Prospector's Gold and Gems" bars are modern (obviously, due to the "2020" date on yours). Other dates exist.
They are produced by PG&G (Dave Emslie) out of Fort Collins, Colorado. I engraved the kneeling prospector die that they use.
The "MG" (Mark Gary) bars are also modern as you know, but produced in limited quantities (thus the "LIMITED" marking on some bars).
MG Bars has collaborated with some other bar fabricators to produce very limited quantities of bars with dual markings. Your "JP METALS / MG LIMITED" bar is one such piece.
Here is half of the production run that I made for the "Clark Gruber" / "MG" collaboration.
Very strange. THKS!
I tried soooooo hard to get one of these.....😔
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
Nice stuff!! The vintage stuff is awesome but there are less fakes with the modern pours. MG Limited is one of the better "modern" pours.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
There are a bunch of great modern pour artists on FB and IG. Go check them out
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
Here are 3 more than I have come across.
1) "CAL_AG"
This would translate as California Silver, of course. But beyond that I have not found out who the maker is, even though there are several of these bars shown on the internet.
2) "S H"
I have found nothing on this. With such a simple marking identifier, this will be difficult.
3) "SECCO"
I could not find anything on this maker either, or any instances of any other "SECCO" bars.