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San Francisco 1860

Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

The San Francisco no motto seated quarters 1855-1865 have become the favorite part of my seated quarter set. I've been doing some reading about early San Francisco and ran across this Isidore-Laurent Deroy lithograph. Deroy was a well known (at the time) French lithographer of city views and did several American cities, including this view of San Francisco in 1860.

I'm been doing some preliminary research to try and determine how accurate it is, or if it's just an approximation of the actual buildings. I think it's largely an approximation. I'm pretty sure the main road is supposed to be Market St.

I ordered the gilcee canvas print below which I'll get blocked and framed for my office. Post your 1860 San Francisco coins!

Comments

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It might be a highly stylized reproduction. I'm assuming the view is looking north towards Angel Island from Twin Peaks but the angle doesn't look accurate.

    Tim

  • Glen2022Glen2022 Posts: 932 ✭✭✭✭

    Look like someone stole the Golden Gate bridge! LOL

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pointfivezero said:
    It might be a highly stylized reproduction. I'm assuming the view is looking north towards Angel Island from Twin Peaks but the angle doesn't look accurate.

    Tim

    The view is looking northeast. That should be Yerba Buena Island in the middle.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Glen2022 said:
    Look like someone stole the Golden Gate bridge! LOL

    The map is looking northeast toward the bay. Someone stole the bay bridge.

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK, that makes much more sense:

    Tim

  • maymay Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The print may of been flipped at some point.

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome 1860-s quarter!

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @skier07 said:

    So nice for the grade!

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2024 6:48PM

    Yes, it is somewhat stylized, and it shows Yerba Buena Island (aka Goat Island).
    However the main street shown is Sacramento Street, not Market Street.
    As @pointfivezero's photos show, Market St. heads to the left side of Goat Island, not the right side.

    I found an 1860 photo, and the drawings are quite similar to it.
    One of the buildings it shows is the "Montgomery Block", which I have labelled A in the photos and map below.
    This building was one of the few still standing after the 1906 quake and fire.
    It had 4 stories and 19 windows on the top floor.
    These are accurately shown in the photo and the Payot drawing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Block


    1. 1860 photo
    https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ca0675.photos (the link includes later photos of the Montgomery Block)


    2. Payot / Gosselin drawing 1860 - somewhat accurate
    https://www.geographicus.com/P/AntiqueMap/sanfrancisco-gosselin-1860

    The view corresponds closely with surviving photographic evidence and may have been based on a photograph.
    The view looks eastward from atop Knob Hill down Sacramento Street, with Powell Avenue in the foreground....


    3. Deroy drawing (1870) - less accurate
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:San_francisco_1860.jpg
    Some of the items which have been exaggerated are the height of Telegraph Hill (on the far left),
    the size of Goat Island, the size of the Oakland Hills behind Goat Island, and the height of the tower on building B.
    It also does not show 19 windows on the Montgomery Block.


    4. google maps 2024
    I added an M at the location of the original SF Mint, 608 Commercial St.
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/628+Montgomery+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94111/@37.7932344,-122.4013417,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8085808ac41570c7:0x56ef60aaf2f46db8!8m2!3d37.7951228!4d-122.4030798?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice analysis, @yosclimber. I was definitely thrown off by the size of YB island in the OP's drawing. Based on the size, I thought it could only be Angel Island when I looked at a current aerial view of the Bay Area. And the Oakland Hills look like the Sierra's in the Deroy version. I thought it could be an exaggerated version of Mt Diablo at first except it only shows a single peak.

    Appreciate the research.

    Tim

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2024 5:31AM

    @yosclimber Thanks for the clarification, awesome info!

    Ultimately I was hoping to identify the original San Francisco mint in the picture. It would be on Montgomery St, between Clay and Commercial St.

    It should be somewhere in this area in the photo.

    It looks like it might be this building on the picture (it doesn't really look like anything in the photo though).

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From what I can tell so far, no photographs of the original mint exist. I ran across this, which is supposed to be the original mint, but I have no idea if that's true.

    It looks like it would be one of these buildings on the Payot picture.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2024 6:49PM

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    @yosclimber Thanks for the clarification, awesome info!

    Ultimately I was hoping to identify the original San Francisco mint in the picture. It would be on Montgomery St, between Clay and Commercial St.

    It should be somewhere in this area in the photo.

    Yes.
    The wikipedia entry says it was at 608 Commercial St.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Mint
    If that is true, it was quite close to the Montgomery Block,
    and it would be down behind the building with the signs saying
    "FORD'S", "DAGUERRAN GALLERY" and "CLOTHING WARE HOUSE".
    Commercial Street is on the left side of that building in this photo.

    I added a small M to the google map capture for that address.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber

    I think it would actually be right above where you placed the M, between Clay and Commercial St.

    The SF Historical Society is on the current site at 608 Commercial St.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My understanding is that the original SF mint was torn down in 1877 and replaced with a new assay office building, which was destroyed in the 1906 fire, except for the front facade, which is preserved as the facade for the SF Historical Society located at 608 Commercial St. today.

    Surviving facade

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @semikeycollector said:
    1860-S $10 This is my rarest coin.

    Wow, incredible coin!

    Thank you Manifest Destiny!

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2024 5:49PM

    i did a presentation on the first San Francisco Mint- 1854. My Power point slides are attached. Clicking the link will download the slides. A thank you to Big Tree for helping me find the best only true source for this presentation!

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did another presentation on the Granite Lady San Francisco mint - 1874. Clicking the link will download the slides.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @semikeycollector Awesome presentations! Here's a screenshot of one of the slides.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,790 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @semikeycollector said:
    i did a presentation on the first San Francisco Mint- 1854. My Power point slides are attached. Clicking the link will download the slides.

    Very nice.
    One suggestion is to add the 1854-S $5 to the bar chart on slide 4.

  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @semikeycollector: awesome read! Thanks for making these available.

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:

    @semikeycollector said:
    i did a presentation on the first San Francisco Mint- 1854. My Power point slides are attached. Clicking the link will download the slides.

    Very nice.
    One suggestion is to add the 1854-S $5 to the bar chart on slide 4.

    Hi Yosclimber,
    Yes this was an accidental omission. Good point! There is a later slide that discusses the 1854 $5.
    Thank you!

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Copperindian said:
    @semikeycollector: awesome read! Thanks for making these available.

    Thank you CopperIndian! It was a lot of fun researching this topic! Glad you enjoyed!

  • semikeycollectorsemikeycollector Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    @semikeycollector Awesome presentations! Here's a screenshot of one of the slides.

    Thank you Manifest Destiny! I can always use a helpful advertisement!!!

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2024 6:55PM

    @Manifest_Destiny said:
    @yosclimber

    I think it would actually be right above where you placed the M, between Clay and Commercial St.

    The SF Historical Society is on the current site at 608 Commercial St.

    You are correct - I just checked it using google street view.
    The even numbered addresses are on the north side of Commercial St.
    I will correct the location of the M on my map.


    This also implies that the mint is almost visible in the 1860 photo.
    It is just down, left (north) and slightly up (east) of the building with the signs "CLOTHING WARE HOUSE", etc.

    My red dashed rectangle is a very rough guess.
    It might be further east.
    Or it might be partly visible in the photo.
    I was trying to place it near the corner of Commercial and Montgomery.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:

    This also implies that the mint is almost visible in the 1860 photo.
    It is just down, left (north) and slightly up (east) of the building with the signs "CLOTHING WARE HOUSE", etc.

    I think it's this low profile building with the smoke stacks.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2024 10:25AM


    It turns out the photo is actually part of a 7 image panorama shot in 1855 by George Robinson Fardon.
    Above is an improved version of the area near the 1854 SF Mint.
    https://www.phillips.com/article/104418614/san-francisco-time-warp

    In the text they err on the location of Clay Street.
    Ford's Daguerrean Gallery was on Kearny x Commercial Street, not Kearny x Clay Street.
    This is because we know the Montgomery Block (middle of left side of photo) was on Montgomery x Clay Street.

    The full Fardon panorama is quite similar to the Payot and Deroy lithographs.

    1855 Fardon

    1860 Payot

    1870 Deroy

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:

    It turns out the photo is actually part of a 7 image panorama shot in 1855 by George Robinson Fardon.
    Above is an improved version of the area near the 1854 SF Mint.
    https://www.phillips.com/article/104418614/san-francisco-time-warp

    In the text they err on the location of Clay Street.
    Ford's Daguerran Gallery was on Kearny x Commercial Street, not Kearny x Clay Street.
    This is because we know the Montgomery Block (middle of left side of photo) was on Montgomery x Clay Street.

    More great info! I agree with the Daguerran Gallery being on Kearny x Commercial Street. That would place the mint at this spot in the photo.

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