Is Aaron Judge now a top 5 all time Yankee?

craig44

As far as position players go, I would believe most have had Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle and Jeter as the top 5 all time yankees. With the career Judge is putting together, I think he has knocked Jeter out of the top 5. I know Derek has many post season moments and championships, and that does count for a lot, but Judge is such a dominant force in a way Jeter never was.

How high do you think Judge can get? with 3 or 4 more seasons like this one, he would leapfrog Joe I think and possibly even Mantle.

bgr

Yes. This is the kind of deliciously controversial thread I yearn for.

It’s going to be hard to compare Judge to Jeter. I have Jeter pretty high overall and think he’s underrated, even as high as he’s generally ranked.

craig44

@bgr said:
Yes. This is the kind of deliciously controversial thread I yearn for.

It’s going to be hard to compare Judge to Jeter. I have Jeter pretty high overall and think he’s underrated, even as high as he’s generally ranked.

it is like the marino vs. montana debate from years ago. Dan had all the regular season stats and joe had the postseason awards and championships.

how do you consider Jeters poor defense at SS in the debate.

while you can never predict injury, I think it will be a slam dunk if Judge can stay healthy for the next 3-4 years.

erikthredd

When factoring all time Yankees greats, championships always need to be accounted for. Forget the 5 players that you mentioned above Craig,
is Aaron Judge a better all time Yankees player than Mariano Rivera who has 5 championships and is MLB's all time saves leader?
Is Judge a better player than Yogi Berra who won 9 championships and finished with 3 MVP awards?
Reggie, Arod, Mattingly, Guidry, Bernie Williams, Maris, Munson, Whitey Ford, Pettite.

Not knocking Judge here but New York has a long history of success and an even longer list of great players after their top 5. What works in Judge's favor though is he could realistically still play another 6-8 seasons if his body holds up and he wants to keep going.

perkdog

Yogi Berra or Judge?

I'm taking Berra every time

JoeBanzai

Great subject!

Judge's problem is games missed, plus his age.
In 8 full seasons (not counting 2016) Judge has payed full time in only 4 years;
2018, missed 50 games, 2019 missed 60 games, 2020 played in 28 of the 60 games and last year he missed 56 games.
Aaron will be 33 years old next year. Can he stay healthy, Can he stay productive? If so, how productive, and for how long?

I don't think Judge will come close to challenging Ruth or Gehrig.

Judge vs Jeter;
Jeter played SS for 2747 games. I don't think he was that bad defensively, but maybe he was below average. Look at his games played per season, he was rarely out of the lineup, only 3 times out of 19 years did he play less than 145 games.
Judge has played a majority of his career (960 games) in RF and has DHed in nearly as many games as he's played in CF. I don't see a defensive advantage for Judge here. I don't like comparing a slugging outfielder to a Shortstop. Jeter was a very good hitter for Average. SS are not expected to be great sluggers.

Judge vs Mantle;
Not even close at this point. Mantle missed 58 games in his rookie year, missed 24 games in 1953 and that's about it for his first 8 seasons. Judge will need to have 4(?) more monster years to be seriously in the discussion.

Judge vs Dimaggio;
Maybe he's a bit closer to overtaking Joe, but Dimaggio missed 3 seasons while in he military and he is considered one of the best defensive Centerfielders of all time. Dimaggio's SLG and OPS are nearly as good as Judge's and Yankee Stadium was horrible for Joe, who's power was to left center field.

Here's a guy you missed that I would have included; Yogi Berra.

Yogi was one of the best catchers of all time, while not the slugger Judge is, I would say he's higher on the "all time Yankee great" list. It's hard to evaluate the positional advantage between catcher and RF, but with Judge being at only 1,000 games played at the age of 33 at the beginning of next year, I don't see him cracking the top 5 without a few more spectacular seasons.

craig44

@erikthredd said:
When factoring all time Yankees greats, championships always need to be accounted for. Forget the 5 players that you mentioned above Craig,
is Aaron Judge a better all time Yankees player than Mariano Rivera who has 5 championships and is MLB's all time saves leader?
Is Judge a better player than Yogi Berra who won 9 championships and finished with 3 MVP awards?
Reggie, Arod, Mattingly, Guidry, Bernie Williams, Maris, Munson, Whitey Ford, Pettite.

Not knocking Judge here but New York has a long history of success and an even longer list of great players after their top 5. What works in Judge's favor though is he could realistically still play another 6-8 seasons if his body holds up and he wants to keep going.

for this thought experiment, I stated in the OP that I was only considering position players. We will exclude all the pitchers. Judge has been such an overwhelming offensive force that Bernie, Mattingly and even Reggie are outshineded. keep in mind, Reggie only played what, 5 seasons for the Yanks.

Arod was fantastic for the Yanks. he played 12 seasons for them. He has 2 that could rival Judges best seasons. but, they are not as good. Judge is getting really close to ARods total of Yankee home runs and he has played in 600 fewer games. His rate stats are also better than arods. He just needs to add a few more peak seasons and his raw numbers will be right there with ARods.

Yogi was a great player. I just dont see him as really that close to Judge as an offensive player. like really not close. his OPS+ is almost 50 points lower than Judges. it took Yogi 2120 games to accumulate 59.5 WAR. Judge currently has 50.3 in only 960 games. And WAR is adjusted for position. While I understand that Catcher is the most difficult position, I just dont see how Yogi can overcome the offensive chasm between he and Judge. yes, Yogi has 3 MVP. Judge will almost certainly win his second this season and it wouldnt surprise me if he had one or 2 more left in him. Judges rate stats are just in a whole different ballpark from Yogi's.

championships. how much do they count? of course, that is what the players play for. but, in baseball, a single player does not push the needle enough to turn a stinking team into a great one. just ask Williams, Cobb, Banks, Trout etc. I think that the amount of people who would say Berra was on the level of a williams or cobb or even better would be very few. even with Yogi's 10 rings. No one would say that Robert Horry was a better player than Larry Bird even though big shot bob has more than 2x as many rings as the legend.

I think the exception to that in baseball would be a stud Starting pitcher in the playoffs. guys like Koufax, Gibson, Schilling etc can really push the needle for a team to win a championship if they start 3 or even 4 games.

I think Judge is just such an outlier offensively that it is hard to overcome how he has produced. I think if he has 3 more seasons like the last couple, it will be even more clear.

erikthredd

Craig, I admit that I unintentionally glossed over the position players part and I'm in no way trying to denounce anything that Aaron Judge has done, I was just pointing out he has some very stiff competition inside that franchise in these type of debates. While I admittedly don't watch the game like I used to, I've seen firsthand how great so many of those names were over time, especially in the playoffs against Boston.

For all we know Judge could win three MVPs over the next 5 seasons and also a world series win or two on top of that (I know that this coming from a Boston fan is sacrilegious lol.) The guy hasn't written the end of his story

championships. how much do they count?

As a fellow Tom Brady fan that has been arguing his GOAT title for years (including here right next to you) we both know how much that they count for because we've both made the same arguments for who was the greatest QB ever.

I've stated this numerous times over the years but if we're debating who the top players are in a certain sport, at a certain position or on a certain team, I've repeatedly said that I count winning. If someone wants to disagree that's fine, this entire topic in any sport is all opinion based anyways.

Basebal21

Championships shouldnt matter, its a team sport

Playoff statistics would be relevant though and Judge is a .211/.310/.462 hitter in the playoffs. Given how often the Yankees franchise has made the playoffs its hard to say a player that disappears in the playoffs is one of their top 5 of all time

DocBenjamin

Tough to evaluate by generation as the PEDS move from booze to speed to roids.

Judge appears to be rather juiced.

Jeter is a compiler so can be picked off easily.

Though in any best of, by team, the pitchers need to be included in the mix. They also wear the pinstripes.

craig44

@DocBenjamin said:
Tough to evaluate by generation as the PEDS move from booze to speed to roids.

Judge appears to be rather juiced.

Jeter is a compiler so can be picked off easily.

Though in any best of, by team, the pitchers need to be included in the mix. They also wear the pinstripes.

I no longer consider PED in player comparison debates. other than failed tests or admissions, we have no earthly idea who used. And I agree, Judge sure does look the part. 285 ripped pounds.

ElMagoStrikeZone

As long as Juan Soto sticks around, yes.

bgr

@craig44 said:

@bgr said:
Yes. This is the kind of deliciously controversial thread I yearn for.

It’s going to be hard to compare Judge to Jeter. I have Jeter pretty high overall and think he’s underrated, even as high as he’s generally ranked.

it is like the marino vs. montana debate from years ago. Dan had all the regular season stats and joe had the postseason awards and championships.

how do you consider Jeters poor defense at SS in the debate.

while you can never predict injury, I think it will be a slam dunk if Judge can stay healthy for the next 3-4 years.

With respect to Jeter. I of course ignore his defensive metrics as almost everyone else must. More seriously, I’m probably biased because I watched Jeter play a lot. He tended to be pretty spectacular and knew where he needed to be on the diamond. He didn’t make a lot of errors but he refused to switch positions as his range declined. His defensive ability, especially in the latter half of his career will always be violently debated.

Mr. November.

Darin

@craig44 said:

@DocBenjamin said:
Tough to evaluate by generation as the PEDS move from booze to speed to roids.

Judge appears to be rather juiced.

Jeter is a compiler so can be picked off easily.

Though in any best of, by team, the pitchers need to be included in the mix. They also wear the pinstripes.

I no longer consider PED in player comparison debates. other than failed tests or admissions, we have no earthly idea who used. And I agree, Judge sure does look the part. 285 ripped pounds.

You have a point, it was pretty hard to tell if Bonds was juicing. Some of the photos from later in his career certainly aren’t very good proof as they tend to be fairly blurry or hard to make out exactly what you captured in an image. This one was supposedly taken after a day game in Colorado when an intrepid fan decided to follow him into the Rocky Mountains.

JoeBanzai

@craig44 said:

@erikthredd said:
When factoring all time Yankees greats, championships always need to be accounted for. Forget the 5 players that you mentioned above Craig,
is Aaron Judge a better all time Yankees player than Mariano Rivera who has 5 championships and is MLB's all time saves leader?
Is Judge a better player than Yogi Berra who won 9 championships and finished with 3 MVP awards?
Reggie, Arod, Mattingly, Guidry, Bernie Williams, Maris, Munson, Whitey Ford, Pettite.

Not knocking Judge here but New York has a long history of success and an even longer list of great players after their top 5. What works in Judge's favor though is he could realistically still play another 6-8 seasons if his body holds up and he wants to keep going.

for this thought experiment, I stated in the OP that I was only considering position players. We will exclude all the pitchers. Judge has been such an overwhelming offensive force that Bernie, Mattingly and even Reggie are outshineded. keep in mind, Reggie only played what, 5 seasons for the Yanks.

Arod was fantastic for the Yanks. he played 12 seasons for them. He has 2 that could rival Judges best seasons. but, they are not as good. Judge is getting really close to ARods total of Yankee home runs and he has played in 600 fewer games. His rate stats are also better than arods. He just needs to add a few more peak seasons and his raw numbers will be right there with ARods.

Yogi was a great player. I just dont see him as really that close to Judge as an offensive player. like really not close. his OPS+ is almost 50 points lower than Judges. it took Yogi 2120 games to accumulate 59.5 WAR. Judge currently has 50.3 in only 960 games. And WAR is adjusted for position. While I understand that Catcher is the most difficult position, I just dont see how Yogi can overcome the offensive chasm between he and Judge. yes, Yogi has 3 MVP. Judge will almost certainly win his second this season and it wouldnt surprise me if he had one or 2 more left in him. Judges rate stats are just in a whole different ballpark from Yogi's.

>
>
From 1950-1957 Berra won 3 MVP's, was 2nd twice, 3rd once and 4th once, all the while averaging playing in 143 games a year out of 154 at the hardest position in baseball and you claim he's not better than Judge who has never played more than two full seasons in a row?
I don't think so.
>
>

championships. how much do they count? of course, that is what the players play for. but, in baseball, a single player does not push the needle enough to turn a stinking team into a great one. just ask Williams, Cobb, Banks, Trout etc. I think that the amount of people who would say Berra was on the level of a williams or cobb or even better would be very few. even with Yogi's 10 rings. No one would say that Robert Horry was a better player than Larry Bird even though big shot bob has more than 2x as many rings as the legend.

I think the exception to that in baseball would be a stud Starting pitcher in the playoffs. guys like Koufax, Gibson, Schilling etc can really push the needle for a team to win a championship if they start 3 or even 4 games.

>
>
I rarely mention championships when comparing individuals on a team, but during those same years Yogi played in 44 World Series games and had an average OPS of .920
>
>

I think Judge is just such an outlier offensively that it is hard to overcome how he has produced. I think if he has 3 more seasons like the last couple, it will be even more clear.

>
>
Judge has had 4 superb seasons out of 8, he's going to be 34 years old and you think he's going to have 3 more great years? In Center Field?
I guess it's possible, but I doubt he will both stay healthy and productive.

I think you are vastly under appreciating Berra's contributions to a pitching staff that (other than Whitey Ford) wasn't that great, yet made it to the WS just about every year.

In his book on Yogi, Alan Barra has a chapter in the back that compares all the greatest catchers using every advanced metric available, and Berra comes out as either the best or second best with Johnny Bench the only real competition.

dallasactuary

Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle and Berra are still so far above Judge he can't reach their shoes. So the answer to your question, is "no, he's not even close".

I think he can reach Jeter's knees, and maybe Dickey's waist, but he's still below them. You just can't catch up to bona fide HOF players in less than 1,000 games.

Obviously, if we count his whole career, ARod is miles above Judge, too. But if we count only his years with the Yankees, not his prime, I think he's still on top of Judge. ARod played 50% more games, and he played 3B well while Judge played (mostly) RF adequately. Judge hits better than ARod did as a Yankee, but not 50%+ better.

Huge dropoff in Yankee greatness after that, and Judge is better than whoever comes next (Willie Randolph or Thurman Munson, I guess). So I've got him in 9th. He needs several more great years to crack the top 5, all of whom could plausibly be considered among the 10 greatest players - on any team - of all time.

JoeBanzai

^I forgot about Dickey. He's better too.

1948_Swell_Robinson

That's the toughest list to crack. Judge needs four more years similar to this year(or his 2022 season). He started late and has missed too many chunks of games in his other seasons.

In the eyes of Yankee fans if they(he) don't win any World Series then he will never crack that list.

Mistlin

Derek Jeter is the single-most overrated player in recent history. There's not a player alive who benefited more from his team's success getting him postseason appearances than this guy.

204th all time in OBP. An abysmal defender who gold glove voters inexplicably awarded (the same morons who gave Rafael Palmeiro a gold glove at 1B despite playing less than 40 games there). 3 top-5 MVP finishes despite playing for 20. The list goes on and on and on.

Aaron Judge has 50 WAR in 7 full seasons. It took Jeter 20 years to get to 71. Judge already has an MVP award and is the odds-on favorite to win a second this year. Judge in 7 years already has a more impressive career than Jeter.

Mistlin

The guy claiming Yogi Berra is a top-5 yankee all-time should have his head examined.

erikthredd

@Mistlin said:
The guy claiming Yogi Berra is a top-5 yankee all-time should have his head examined.

Hey Misfit, maybe you should actually read through the comments in this thread again so you'll see that no one here ever claimed that Yogi Berra is a top 5 Yankee all time. I pointed out that there were other great Yankees AFTER the top five that Craig named, then Perk commented he'd take Yogi over Judge.

You've posted a total of 229 comments on this forum (from what we all know has to be an alt account here) and literally 90% of that total is nothing but insulting or instigating other members. How the hell that you haven't been banned yet is beyond me.

bgr

I don’t think Jeters defense was that atrocious during his GG years. And we all know that there is a popularity contest aspect with GG. His fielding percentage was good and he didn’t make a lot of errors. His range declined as he aged and his refusal to switch positions, including after they signed arod, who was a much better SS was part of why I think he’s seen as a defensive liability. His range really impacts his OOA and that’s what really impacts his defensive metrics. Not saying those metrics are wrong. Just that they’re not terrible and I don’t think he’s the most overrated player in recent history. He was one vote shy of a unanimous election and it should have been unanimous for HOF as far as I’m concerned. Whether or not he’s in the top 5 is up for debate surely. Maybe polite debate.

While I also didn’t see anyone put Berra in the top 5… I will. I have him at #4 now. Enjoy your indigestion!

dallasactuary

@erikthredd said:

Hey Misfit, maybe you should actually read through the comments in this thread again so you'll see that no one here ever claimed that Yogi Berra is a top 5 Yankee all time.

This is awkward.

erikthredd

@dallasactuary said:

@erikthredd said:

Hey Misfit, maybe you should actually read through the comments in this thread again so you'll see that no one here ever claimed that Yogi Berra is a top 5 Yankee all time.

This is awkward.

Did I miss where someone actually said the phrase Berra is a top 5 Yankee? Unless you're insinuating that he was referring to your own comment there? I don't see a 1-5 ranking in it, I see you pointing out that you'd have 8 NY players ahead of Judge.

coinkat

No

Indigestion is not my problem at the moment.

JoeBanzai

Berra.....3X MVP plus additional 3X in top 4.

You guys who don't think Bera was a top 5 yankee need to read this book and get back to me.

bgr

@coinkat said:
No

Indigestion is not my problem at the moment.

I mentioned indigestion in response to Mistlin’s remarks. It doesn’t have to have anything to do with you.

bgr

@JoeBanzai said:
Berra.....3X MVP plus additional 3X in top 4.

You guys who don't think Bera was a top 5 yankee need to read this book and get back to me.

The recent documentary “it ain’t over” also makes a strong case. I think it’s on Netflix.

You’re either first or your last though according to Ricky Bobby so it doesn’t matter.

JoeBanzai

^I always liked Yogi. But never thought of him as an all time great catcher, until I read this book.

Ted Williams had the utmost respect for Berra's pitch calling. Ted used to like to approach pitchers he was going to face and tell them he knew exactly how they were going to pitch him, he was usually spot on
Ted said he never had any idea of what the Yankees pitchers were going to throw with Yogi behind the plate.

High praise if you ask me.

dallasactuary

@erikthredd said:

@dallasactuary said:

@erikthredd said:

Hey Misfit, maybe you should actually read through the comments in this thread again so you'll see that no one here ever claimed that Yogi Berra is a top 5 Yankee all time.

This is awkward.

Did I miss where someone actually said the phrase Berra is a top 5 Yankee? Unless you're insinuating that he was referring to your own comment there? I don't see a 1-5 ranking in it, I see you pointing out that you'd have 8 NY players ahead of Judge.

Well, I didn't rank 1 through 5, but I listed my top 5, and Berra is definitely in there. After that, Jeter is 6, Dickey is 7, ARod is 8, and Judge is 9. That's my list, anyway, and I'm very comfortable with it.

erikthredd

@dallasactuary said:

@erikthredd said:

@dallasactuary said:

@erikthredd said:

Hey Misfit, maybe you should actually read through the comments in this thread again so you'll see that no one here ever claimed that Yogi Berra is a top 5 Yankee all time.

This is awkward.

Did I miss where someone actually said the phrase Berra is a top 5 Yankee? Unless you're insinuating that he was referring to your own comment there? I don't see a 1-5 ranking in it, I see you pointing out that you'd have 8 NY players ahead of Judge.

Well, I didn't rank 1 through 5, but I listed my top 5, and Berra is definitely in there. After that, Jeter is 6, Dickey is 7, ARod is 8, and Judge is 9. That's my list, anyway, and I'm very comfortable with it.

That’s all irrelevant now, what really matters is if you got your head checked or not?

erikthredd

Figuring out my top 10 all time Yankees was pretty easy:
1. Y
2. O
3. G
4. I
5. B
6. E
7. R
8. R
9. A
10. Joba Chamberlain’s Momma
😎

dallasactuary

@erikthredd said:
That’s all irrelevant now, what really matters is if you got your head checked or not?

My mother had me tested.

DocBenjamin

Saw Joe Pepitone play in 1969.

He was top 5 in the hair list.

1948_Swell_Robinson

@dallasactuary said:

@erikthredd said:

@dallasactuary said:

@erikthredd said:

Hey Misfit, maybe you should actually read through the comments in this thread again so you'll see that no one here ever claimed that Yogi Berra is a top 5 Yankee all time.

This is awkward.

Did I miss where someone actually said the phrase Berra is a top 5 Yankee? Unless you're insinuating that he was referring to your own comment there? I don't see a 1-5 ranking in it, I see you pointing out that you'd have 8 NY players ahead of Judge.

Well, I didn't rank 1 through 5, but I listed my top 5, and Berra is definitely in there. After that, Jeter is 6, Dickey is 7, ARod is 8, and Judge is 9. That's my list, anyway, and I'm very comfortable with it.

It is tough to argue against those rankings at this point in time. Jeter and Berra could flip and it is debatable. Jeter's defense is nowhere near as bad as the defensive metrics say because those are not accurate at all. I have another thread on that.

Judge isn't ahead of any of those guys yet, but he is climbing fast. For instance, here are their Run Expectancy for their careers:

Berra 397
Jeter 387
Judge 359
Dickey 343
Arod 338 with the Yankees.

Berra, Jeter, and Dickey all add more value due to defensive scarcity. Arod a little bit more than Judge in that regard too.

One more healthy season(after this year) out of Judge and he will be ahead of Arod and Dickey(including their defensive value), even more so if Judge keeps playing CF.

If/when Judge gets his Run Expectancy number around 500 and has played more CF, he will be ahead of Berra and Jeter. Can Judge do that is the question of course.

Judge's Run Expectancy is 81 this season and was 80 in 2022. Will he do seasons similar to that again? Who knows. His third best season was 50, and his fourth best 47(injured).

Judge seems like a good dude. I wish him well on his quest. That is a tough list to crack.

Mistlin

Yogi Berra as a top 5 Yankee all time is one of the most amusing (and wrong) comments ever made here, and that's saying something.

198th all-time in WAR?

Like I said, HILARIOUS.

1948_Swell_Robinson

@Mistlin said:
Yogi Berra as a top 5 Yankee all time is one of the most amusing (and wrong) comments ever made here, and that's saying something.

198th all-time in WAR?

Like I said, HILARIOUS.

Considering that WAR is more of generalization than a specific, and that you are using it as the only benchmark, how is someone calling Berra 5th best Yankee so laughable when he actually is sixth all time in WAR in Yankee history?

erikthredd

bgr

I guess when you support your assertions with such compelling data as... "like I said"... it makes it clear.

craig44

Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

1948_Swell_Robinson

@craig44 said:
Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

Yes it is crazy what you are pointing out. Crazy as in crazy impressive for Judge. On a per game basis Judge is better without a doubt...even just using Berra's prime so we eliminate the old man years.

But there is always that dilemma of valuing the body of work and playing every day vs the extreme high rate guys who get hurt a lot.

Mistlin

My last comment on this Yogi Berra nonsense is this:

he was extremely lucky to have played when he did.

craig44

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

@craig44 said:
Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

Yes it is crazy what you are pointing out. Crazy as in crazy impressive for Judge. On a per game basis Judge is better without a doubt...even just using Berra's prime so we eliminate the old man years.

But there is always that dilemma of valuing the body of work and playing every day vs the extreme high rate guys who get hurt a lot.

yeah, his peak seasons rate right up there with the best. Right now, he is like the position player version of Koufax. If he can string a few more all time seasons together he will have a very compelling case. health will be the factor.

I have not done the research, but he must be on track to becoming one of the very greatest right handed hitters of all time.

off the top of my head, he would be competing with hornsby, pujols, manny, frank thomas, mays.

DocBenjamin

@craig44 said:
Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

Surprised Bond's didn't make the list. Thinking about it though, maybe not.

craig44

@DocBenjamin said:

@craig44 said:
Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

Surprised Bond's didn't make the list. Thinking about it though, maybe not.

It is surprising. he only had one 50+ homer season. i think he did get 1 or 2 with around 49 though, so he was close. he certainly would have done it had they not walked him 200 times a season.

Mcgwire almost had 5 50 homer seasons. in his rookie season he had 49. 5 would have been the record.

bgr

@Mistlin said:
My last comment on this Yogi Berra nonsense is this:

he was extremely lucky to have played when he did.

This is what modern catchers always say. They lament that they couldn't play during the golden age of the position in the 40s, 50s, and 60s.

Basebal21

@craig44 said:

@DocBenjamin said:

@craig44 said:
Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

Surprised Bond's didn't make the list. Thinking about it though, maybe not.

It is surprising. he only had one 50+ homer season. i think he did get 1 or 2 with around 49 though, so he was close. he certainly would have done it had they not walked him 200 times a season.

Mcgwire almost had 5 50 homer seasons. in his rookie season he had 49. 5 would have been the record.

Almost 700 intentional walks is wild including ones that were bases loaded. Its more than double the 2nd most

1948_Swell_Robinson

@craig44 said:

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

@craig44 said:
Judge is now one of only 5 players to have at least 3 50 home run seasons. the others?

ruth
mcgwire
sosa
arod.

WAR was being mentioned earlier. it took Berra 2120 games to amass 59.5 WAR. in only 964 games, Judge is less than 9 behind. he should pass him late next season. that is pretty shocking as positional adjustment is figured in.

Yes it is crazy what you are pointing out. Crazy as in crazy impressive for Judge. On a per game basis Judge is better without a doubt...even just using Berra's prime so we eliminate the old man years.

But there is always that dilemma of valuing the body of work and playing every day vs the extreme high rate guys who get hurt a lot.

yeah, his peak seasons rate right up there with the best. Right now, he is like the position player version of Koufax. If he can string a few more all time seasons together he will have a very compelling case. health will be the factor.

I have not done the research, but he must be on track to becoming one of the very greatest right handed hitters of all time.

off the top of my head, he would be competing with hornsby, pujols, manny, frank thomas, mays.

Yes, and leads to the age old debate, what is better to begin with, a guy who is a monster for six years or a guy who is a lesser monster but does it for 10 years.

pdoidoi

@Mistlin said:
The guy claiming Yogi Berra is a top-5 yankee all-time should have his head examined.

Did you ever think that maybe it is you that needs the head examined. You seem so offended or bothered by other peoples opinions. This seems to be a daily occurrence with you.

erikthredd

Came across this pretty sweet Judge stolen homerun play from one of his recent games. With that type of height and agility I'd bet he could be a great alley-oop threat in pickup basketball. Phenomenal effort there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9dQ1FXr24

Mistlin

@pdoidoi said:

@Mistlin said:
The guy claiming Yogi Berra is a top-5 yankee all-time should have his head examined.

Did you ever think that maybe it is you that needs the head examined. You seem so offended or bothered by other peoples opinions. This seems to be a daily occurrence with you.

You are more than welcome to ignore my posts.