@Mikeygiggs_336699 said:
Mile High Auction has a couple of OPC Nolan Ryan cards in their latest auction …68 OPC PSA 7 and a 1971 OPC 10 which should get some attention from Ryan registry collectors I’m sure.
an opc 10, wow. Now that's rare for any and all years.
@olb31 said:
I think you should be able to use collectibles in your retirement accounts. Most of the cards do better than the markets and with grading so big, the MV is usually somewhat determinable.
Have yet to see a sport card pay me monthly and increase in value over time even with a 18% negative hit in 2022. But if folks want to add it as an asset to increase a feel-good net worth number.... well, I'm good with that.
For example - bought a 1968 opc psa 6 Nolan ryan for $450 in 2012. 12 years later they sell for around $6k - $7k. 1961 Mays psa 8, paid $275 worth about $1,200. Bought it about 7 years ago. 1965 psa 6 mantle. Paid $425, 4 years ago, now worth $1,100.
I can go on and on. So think of it this way. If they allowed you to do this (maybe only graded cards), the values of the cards would also go up (think about how overpriced about 95% of the stocks are). They would be in huge demand to sock away. As for fees I pay out thousands a year for an "advisory fund". So after 10 years I've spent $30k or more in fees. If you put your cards into the account, not sure if there would be any fees just to hold them there.
@olb31 said:
For example - bought a 1968 opc psa 6 Nolan ryan for $450 in 2012. 12 years later they sell for around $6k - $7k. 1961 Mays psa 8, paid $275 worth about $1,200. Bought it about 7 years ago. 1965 psa 6 mantle. Paid $425, 4 years ago, now worth $1,100.
I can go on and on. So think of it this way. If they allowed you to do this (maybe only graded cards), the values of the cards would also go up (think about how overpriced about 95% of the stocks are). They would be in huge demand to sock away. As for fees I pay out thousands a year for an "advisory fund". So after 10 years I've spent $30k or more in fees. If you put your cards into the account, not sure if there would be any fees just to hold them there.
I agree that many OPC cards in high grade have appreciated very well in the last 10-15 years. If memory serves, I paid around $1k for my PSA 7 ryan OPC rookie around 2013. I paid $1.5k for a PSA 9 Brett 75 OPC just a year or 2 later. I dont know exactly how much they are worth now, but i am sure significantly more than i paid.
We all have individual cards that have done really well, but if we are comparing single cards to single investments, TSLA has returned 1100% since 2012, BTC a 10 bagger since 2019 (note, I didn’t buy either unfortunately!)
There is a reason PWCC stopped updating their card indexes and comping against the SP500, and its not because a basket of cards was beating a basket of equities.
Which is all fine, I love my collection but cringe when thinking about middle class folks having a large portion of their net worth tied up in cardboard.
@80sOPC said:
We all have individual cards that have done really well, but if we are comparing single cards to single investments, TSLA has returned 1100% since 2012, BTC a 10 bagger since 2019 (note, I didn’t buy either unfortunately!)
There is a reason PWCC stopped updating their card indexes and comping against the SP500, and its not because a basket of cards was beating a basket of equities.
Which is all fine, I love my collection but cringe when thinking about middle class folks having a large portion of their net worth tied up in cardboard.
Pretty much spot on based on all the studies comparing the SP500 to other types of investments. Unless you're investing in real estate in certain locations your best bet will always be the SP500. You can also get tax breaks or dividends depending how you do it which makes it even better.
Just an example, but I'd like to buy and am following 1980 Bird/Magic/Doc in psa 9. That card peaked at 90k, had sales over 70, multiple sales over 60, etc, etc.
A beauty copy this summer just sold for 10,300. That is a pretty key/iconic card in the hobby and the 3 year return is -75% and it would cost you 10-20% of gross sale price, to sell it.
@80sOPC said:
Just an example, but I'd like to buy and am following 1980 Bird/Magic/Doc in psa 9. That card peaked at 90k, had sales over 70, multiple sales over 60, etc, etc.
A beauty copy this summer just sold for 10,300. That is a pretty key/iconic card in the hobby and the 3 year return is -75% and it would cost you 10-20% of gross sale price, to sell it.
I was tracking those for a while, but the price felt way too high so I stopped. That seems more in line with what I'd expect it to cost.
one reason stocks do well is the way the system is set up. people fund sep's 401k's, etc and have put the money somewhere, its usually dictated by a broker. many of these companies are extremely overvalued because of the system.
now put my plan into place:
1) breaks up the stock market monopoly on retirement vehicles
2) blue chip cards will go sky high as they will be hoarded in people's portfolio, mantle cards would hit the ceiling and above
3) you can buy gold, but you can't touch or hold it, makes it a little dicey for me.
4) puts your retirement in your hands, not a stock broker or gold broker -- so they get rich.
stocks are high because it's the only choice. with choices, stocks shake out a little and cards/collectibles go higher. im a big fan of competition, not a fan of monopolies.
You can use a robo adviser with low fees, like wealthsimple, and have them build you a stack of ETF’s or self invest. Spend some time researching ETF’s - you can get exposure to a whole index for 5bps in fees.
My annual fees are less than 25bps.
And what you describe below would require significant regulation of the hobby. I think a lot of the growth in high end is because cards are NOT regulated. It is a somewhere to park cash that the IRA does not have eyes on.
@olb31 said:
one reason stocks do well is the way the system is set up. people fund sep's 401k's, etc and have put the money somewhere, its usually dictated by a broker. many of these companies are extremely overvalued because of the system.
now put my plan into place:
1) breaks up the stock market monopoly on retirement vehicles
2) blue chip cards will go sky high as they will be hoarded in people's portfolio, mantle cards would hit the ceiling and above
3) you can buy gold, but you can't touch or hold it, makes it a little dicey for me.
4) puts your retirement in your hands, not a stock broker or gold broker -- so they get rich.
stocks are high because it's the only choice. with choices, stocks shake out a little and cards/collectibles go higher. im a big fan of competition, not a fan of monopolies.
Sounds like good advice. But for most people or companies, Brokerage houses are used. Wells Fargo, Morgan Stanley, Edward Jones, etc. etc. For Gold, i doubt anyone can just go get some without a "broker".
But for people who know what they are doing and have time to study the market, then your idea is great.
It's just like doing your own taxes. Some people can do their own, but due to time constraints, keeping up with tax laws, purchasing software, etc, they just choose a Tax prep company or a CPA.
@80sOPC said:
It’s 2024, no need to make a broker rich.
You can use a robo adviser with low fees, like wealthsimple, and have them build you a stack of ETF’s or self invest. Spend some time researching ETF’s - you can get exposure to a whole index for 5bps in fees.
My annual fees are less than 25bps.
And what you describe below would require significant regulation of the hobby. I think a lot of the growth in high end is because cards are NOT regulated. It is a somewhere to park cash that the IRA does not have eyes on.
@olb31 said:
one reason stocks do well is the way the system is set up. people fund sep's 401k's, etc and have put the money somewhere, its usually dictated by a broker. many of these companies are extremely overvalued because of the system.
now put my plan into place:
1) breaks up the stock market monopoly on retirement vehicles
2) blue chip cards will go sky high as they will be hoarded in people's portfolio, mantle cards would hit the ceiling and above
3) you can buy gold, but you can't touch or hold it, makes it a little dicey for me.
4) puts your retirement in your hands, not a stock broker or gold broker -- so they get rich.
stocks are high because it's the only choice. with choices, stocks shake out a little and cards/collectibles go higher. im a big fan of competition, not a fan of monopolies.
Agreed on all counts.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would never argue with the Oracle of Omaha, but Mezzanine lending rates have been around 14-18% for the past 24 months. So there have been some unique opportunities and factoring has been hot.
I really, really hate to say this (one more really) but if you put that card in a new PSA holder, does an expected auction price justify the re-holder?
The correct answer is "no" but it does make you wonder if some "new money" into the hobby simply bids higher because it resides in a newer holder.
Psa 8 just sold for $699, wow. This is a very tough card. looks like it's finally starting to get its due. I picked up a nice 7 a two months ago for $175,
@woodstock2 said:
It looks like a PSA9 just sold on EBay for 3600.
Nice. Looks like the topps version is at $2,200 or so give or take. In my opinion that mighT have been a good deAL. i think there is still alot more room for the opc.
As a baseball OPC collector I hope the multiples stay where they are. I like the cards and would probably not be able to add more at 3x plus multiples.
Just picked up this beauty but lost on a couple of others I bid on.
Comments
an opc 10, wow. Now that's rare for any and all years.
Have yet to see a sport card pay me monthly and increase in value over time even with a 18% negative hit in 2022. But if folks want to add it as an asset to increase a feel-good net worth number.... well, I'm good with that.
For example - bought a 1968 opc psa 6 Nolan ryan for $450 in 2012. 12 years later they sell for around $6k - $7k. 1961 Mays psa 8, paid $275 worth about $1,200. Bought it about 7 years ago. 1965 psa 6 mantle. Paid $425, 4 years ago, now worth $1,100.
I can go on and on. So think of it this way. If they allowed you to do this (maybe only graded cards), the values of the cards would also go up (think about how overpriced about 95% of the stocks are). They would be in huge demand to sock away. As for fees I pay out thousands a year for an "advisory fund". So after 10 years I've spent $30k or more in fees. If you put your cards into the account, not sure if there would be any fees just to hold them there.
There are 2 1979 Gretzky OPC rookie PSA 10's those likely would be the highest it seems
yes, you are correct. I should have been more specific. I am really only talking about OPC baseball cards that mirror Topps from 1965-1991.
I cant think of a baseball opc card that has sold for that much. I know there is an SGC 10 OPC ryan rookie on the bay that would surpass 63k
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I agree that many OPC cards in high grade have appreciated very well in the last 10-15 years. If memory serves, I paid around $1k for my PSA 7 ryan OPC rookie around 2013. I paid $1.5k for a PSA 9 Brett 75 OPC just a year or 2 later. I dont know exactly how much they are worth now, but i am sure significantly more than i paid.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
We all have individual cards that have done really well, but if we are comparing single cards to single investments, TSLA has returned 1100% since 2012, BTC a 10 bagger since 2019 (note, I didn’t buy either unfortunately!)
There is a reason PWCC stopped updating their card indexes and comping against the SP500, and its not because a basket of cards was beating a basket of equities.
Which is all fine, I love my collection but cringe when thinking about middle class folks having a large portion of their net worth tied up in cardboard.
Pretty much spot on based on all the studies comparing the SP500 to other types of investments. Unless you're investing in real estate in certain locations your best bet will always be the SP500. You can also get tax breaks or dividends depending how you do it which makes it even better.
Just an example, but I'd like to buy and am following 1980 Bird/Magic/Doc in psa 9. That card peaked at 90k, had sales over 70, multiple sales over 60, etc, etc.
A beauty copy this summer just sold for 10,300. That is a pretty key/iconic card in the hobby and the 3 year return is -75% and it would cost you 10-20% of gross sale price, to sell it.
I was tracking those for a while, but the price felt way too high so I stopped. That seems more in line with what I'd expect it to cost.
one reason stocks do well is the way the system is set up. people fund sep's 401k's, etc and have put the money somewhere, its usually dictated by a broker. many of these companies are extremely overvalued because of the system.
now put my plan into place:
1) breaks up the stock market monopoly on retirement vehicles
2) blue chip cards will go sky high as they will be hoarded in people's portfolio, mantle cards would hit the ceiling and above
3) you can buy gold, but you can't touch or hold it, makes it a little dicey for me.
4) puts your retirement in your hands, not a stock broker or gold broker -- so they get rich.
stocks are high because it's the only choice. with choices, stocks shake out a little and cards/collectibles go higher. im a big fan of competition, not a fan of monopolies.
I think the 5% OPC production estimate comes from the fact that there are 25.4 millimeters in an inch.
25.3999954 to be exact.
It’s 2024, no need to make a broker rich.
You can use a robo adviser with low fees, like wealthsimple, and have them build you a stack of ETF’s or self invest. Spend some time researching ETF’s - you can get exposure to a whole index for 5bps in fees.
My annual fees are less than 25bps.
And what you describe below would require significant regulation of the hobby. I think a lot of the growth in high end is because cards are NOT regulated. It is a somewhere to park cash that the IRA does not have eyes on.
80's
Sounds like good advice. But for most people or companies, Brokerage houses are used. Wells Fargo, Morgan Stanley, Edward Jones, etc. etc. For Gold, i doubt anyone can just go get some without a "broker".
But for people who know what they are doing and have time to study the market, then your idea is great.
It's just like doing your own taxes. Some people can do their own, but due to time constraints, keeping up with tax laws, purchasing software, etc, they just choose a Tax prep company or a CPA.
Agreed on all counts.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Warren Buffett is 100 % correct in this article. If you want a guaranteed 10-12% return each year do exactly as he says.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/05/12/warren-buffett-says-index-funds-make-the-best-retirement-sense-practically-all-the-time.html
I would never argue with the Oracle of Omaha, but Mezzanine lending rates have been around 14-18% for the past 24 months. So there have been some unique opportunities and factoring has been hot.
Not even the most ridiculously amazing Ozzies can compete with Buff Daddy right now.
Enjoy the go.
That PSA 9 OPC of Ozzie Smith is fantastic.
I really, really hate to say this (one more really) but if you put that card in a new PSA holder, does an expected auction price justify the re-holder?
The correct answer is "no" but it does make you wonder if some "new money" into the hobby simply bids higher because it resides in a newer holder.
Erik
Psa 8 just sold for $699, wow. This is a very tough card. looks like it's finally starting to get its due. I picked up a nice 7 a two months ago for $175,
It looks like a PSA9 just sold on EBay for 3600.
Nice. Looks like the topps version is at $2,200 or so give or take. In my opinion that mighT have been a good deAL. i think there is still alot more room for the opc.
As a baseball OPC collector I hope the multiples stay where they are. I like the cards and would probably not be able to add more at 3x plus multiples.
Just picked up this beauty but lost on a couple of others I bid on.