Results for the 1870-CC Liberty Dbl. Eagle NGC XF45 in tonight's Heritage ANA Signature auction.
Goldbully
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Mintage: 3,789
40-50 known per PCGS Price Guide
Hammer: $384,000
PCGS Price Guide: $850,000
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9
Comments
Awesome coin!
Someone got a very good deal IMHO.
As 1870cc $20s go, it looks pretty decent, and fairly graded.
You don’t get too many chances to buy those….
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Pcgs price guide is for pcgs coins. That a C+ 40 at pcgs I suspect if just a common date. That said it’s still a dream coin of mine in any grade and the closest I got is a 72cc. Well bought buyer
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Nothing like a CC Double!
Conditionally and absolutely rare!
They are beautiful, as well.
I don’t care what kind of plastic it’s in…That’s a nice looking coin. Buyer did very well.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Excellent buy, but I'm left to wonder why it went cheap?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I would hate to have been the consignor on that coin. I know that another 1870 cc in a lower grade recently sold for more than that. All in all, I thought lots of prices were soft tonight.
For purposes of accuracy, the "hammer" price was $320,000, not $384,000. The $384,000 figure includes the buyer's premium.
"Sold on Aug 14, 2024 for:
$384,000.00
includes Buyer's Premium (BP)
Bid Source: HA.com/Live bidder"
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld
Mark, can we ask your opinion of the coin and the price it sold for?
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
I can't provide an opinion on the coin, as I didn't see it.
As for the price, it seems in line to me, based on the following previous sales (with the buyer's premium included):
A PCGS XF45 sold for a reported $433,125 in May of last year.
An NGC XF 45 sold for $384,000 in April of 2021.
An NGC AU50 sold for $630,000 in October of 2022.
A PCGS XF 40 sold for $360,000 in October of 2021,
I'm also aware of a PCGS/CAC XF 40 example that sold in 2022 and 2023 for $456,000 and $480,000 respectively.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Coins of that level of rarity exist in their own pricing universe. It all depends on how many very wealthy collectors are in the market for one at a given time.
So far as the grade goes I feel it is overgraded. The obverse is no better than VF while the reverse may merit XF40. That coin saw considerable actual circulation use!
@MFeld
Thanks!
That’s quite a flurry, seven sales of XF and better examples in fewer than 4 years.
Anyway, congrats to the winning bidder!
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
I love the 1870-cc coinage. and have a VF30 quarter. There was a time 30 years ago when I thought I'd own one of these someday. I could, if the prrices were the same as 30 years ago, LOL.
I don’t have a $64,000.00 question. Although, I did find a $64,000.00 statement !
No surprise on the pricing IMO
Scuffy and wiped pretty severely. Would be in a details holder if not for the iconic date and mint.
Both services give consideration for icon status.
It's an 1870-CC without a hole in it, nor any major digs. Someone got a good buy IMO.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Great date but the coin looks optimistically graded and it’s in the wrong holder.
@fathom
Did you view the coin in person?
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
No.
Pics from the NGC cert verification.
I would not call that coin a 45.
There’s at least one more of these in a similar grade floating around privately at the moment, so probably not the best time for an auction but it is what it is.
The coin is over graded and is not original, it’s barely a 40 and it would be in a details holder if it wasn’t a 70-cc. The Bender specimen (Pcgs 40 CAC) had gorgeous color and sold for 480k last year, and it’s a much nicer coin. This one bringing 380 is actually strong for what it is, if you ask me. Someone who can spend 380k on one coin can probably afford to spend 480k on one coin, and if I was in that position I’d much rather wait for a coin like the bender example, than settle for this one with a marginal discount.
A true XF45 with original surfaces would bring 3/4 of a million or more, but you must remember to price the actual coin and not just the holder.
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If I have $380k to spend on a coin in my set, you can bet I also have $480k to spend on a 40cac example that I’ll enjoy looking at much more.
I’d think there are very few bargain hunters out there at this level, at least among collectors.
It's not really that there are bargain hunters. With early CC coins, you have to take what you can get. With quarters, I would have gladly paid more for better examples of some some of the dates, but they just aren't available. So, you either buy what you can find now, or you may not see another one for years, and when you do it will be more expensive than today's levels.
Like Dan said. This one brought 810K. Personally, I don’t like the value of any of them at these levels, but the market is the market.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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These cc $20 Libs. seem to be graded on a curve due to the striking at that branch mint. I have seen some really maxed out examples from this date/mm.
Even a PCGS coin wouldn't be much over $400k. $850k in the guide is ridiculous imo. Only the CAC brought more.
I agree if the coin looked like that but my point is you wouldn’t see that most likely in a P45 holder. While 20k is only 5% percent on that coin, I personally would be devastated if one of my coins brought 20K less than I thought it would.
Mostly because I don’t own a 20k coin so coming the table with money for a sale would be tough to swallow
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
That’s a good point, there is definitely opportunity cost to passing. The cadence of these coming to auction seems more regular than the quarters, but that may be a temporary thing.
The last 7 sales that @mfeld pointed out earlier show a consistent strong market for the 1870cc twenties.
DESPITE these facts:
that’s a lot of sales in just 4 years or so,
the coin always comes poorly struck on the obverse,
and seems to have its own set of grading standards.
It’s just a Big Boss Trophy coin, and there truly are a lot of deep pockets out there….
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Idk. I see Mark posted comps from recent auctions and the PCGS 45s were right around $400k.
The rarities market has had some changes since 21 but I’m not sure what you’re countering? That the same coin would have bought the same in a PCGS holder? I don’t think so and I doubt you do either.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I'm still maintaining that the PCGS guide is off by almost a factor of 2. There's no non-CAC comp above $440k against a guide of $810k
There are likely only 40-50 of these out there.
If you are a serious CC collector, it’s sort of definitional to own one if you can swing it. If you decide to buy one, you have already decided to compromise on quality. There are three stickered examples - one 45 and two 40s that are likely “ in strong hands”. Waiting for a Bender type example might be quite a wait.
A collector might think I’ll buy this one because I want/need one now and can always upgrade later if a better example surfaces. It is irrational behavior but sometimes collectors lose their rational decoder rings right before auctions begin.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Not necessarily CC Libs as a whole that are graded on a curve, but this particular date/mm is.
Generally, though, many collectors tend to under-grade type two Lib 20s. The design doesn't have nearly as much detail as a well-struck type 1. That said, the present coin looks like a 40 to me (and thats if you have a gun to my head, telling me I must give it a straight grade).
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And the "finest known" example was stolen over a dozen years ago apparently after PCGS reviewed it for crossover: https://coins.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/shipment-theft-reported-of-a-newly-discovered-and-finest-known-1870-cc-20-ngc-au58.s?releaseId=2109
There was also this PCGS XF-45 auctioned at Stack's Bowers the day before the one in the original post at $432,000:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1B9CKB/1870-cc-liberty-head-double-eagle-ef-45-pcgs
.
.
These are in line with market as others have noted above.
The PCGS Price Guide can make them look low as it appears to be based on two auction aberrations where a then finest PCGS graded AU-53 brought $1,620,000 in November 2021 and the above noted Fairmont PCGS EF-45 CAC at $810,000 in April 2022. The Price Guide jumped after those and has not come down in spite of other lower sales prices. This can happen with other coins also. Then again it could sometimes be too low for some items.
Douglas Winter Numismatics had an interesting article about the AU record price in November 2021 that put it in perspective.
An 1870-CC $20.00 Sells For $1.62 Million (!)
https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2021/11/12/an-1870-cc-2000-sells-for-162-million-
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Great writeup by DW. thanks for the link!
Noticed that the coin in the original post now shows as Not Sold rather than the $384,000 price.
Wonder what the story is behind that.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/1870-cc-20-xf45-ngc-variety-1-a-pcgs-8958-/a/1376-4398.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin