2024 first half coin production
cladking
Posts: 28,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
First "column" is Philly second is Denver, third is total through June.
- Cents ..................................... 740,400,000 692,800,000 1,433,200,000
- Jefferson Nickel ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.,........32,880,000 36,720,000 69,600,000
- Roosevelt Dime ..............,,,.... 138,000,000 92,500,000 230,500,000
- Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray Quarter 185,800,000 168,400,000 354,200,000
- Patsy Takemoto Mink Quarter 187,200,000 210,200,000 397,400,000
- Kennedy Half-Dollar............,....... 8,400,000 9,900,000 18,300,000
- Native American $1 Coin ...........1,120,000 1,120,000 2,240,000
Total....................................... 1,293,800,000 1,211,640,000 2,505,440,000
This is interesting. Not only is coin production finally slowing owing only in part to a recession but the big loss leaders, pennies and nickels, are taking the brunt of the decreases. Is it possible that the government which doesn't care about trillions now cares about pennies!!! Probably not but it's hard to imagine cent production being determined by anything other than the total number of ongoing cash transactions in retail establishments. Cent production should not be affected by much of anything else since other trends like the numbers discarded in the trash or evaporating in air are relatively stable.
I have seen more rounding in the last couple years so perhaps this is more widespread than my small sample size suggests.
More numbers here;
https://www.coinnews.net/2024/07/31/u-s-mint-produces-just-2-66-billion-coins-in-first-half-of-2024/
Comments
Three billion cents per year at a cost of nearly .03 @.
$100,000,000
Seems like they could be eliminated.
Real "costs" are far higher of course. Pennies account for the lion's share of die and depreciation costs. They account for all the vehicles in and out of the mints each day and the pensions earned by retirees. They also account for the presses having to be set at such a high speed that metal doesn't have time to form and relief is continually being lowered. We have all low relief coins even in mint sets because of penny production.
Their true costs can't even be estimated and include everything that has been done at the mint since pennies became less than worthless back around 1973.
If the mint were to eliminate the cent and nickel (and yes, I know it's not their choice, it's the fed's orders that matter).
How much would the reallocation of fixed costs affect the costs of the other coins? How much of the variable costs will really prove to be variable? (You still need a die shop, even if you are making a few thousand fewer dies)(You still need building security even if you are making fewer coins) etc.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Not to mention the number of trees felled to roll up the damn things.
_ (and yes, I know it's not their choice, it's the fed's orders that matter)._
I'm not sure the FED has that much authority. The mint jumps to their tune because the FED is their only customer. The mint can't change designs more often than every 25 years without an act of Congress but I shouldn't be surprised if they can discontinue loss leaders.
How much would the reallocation of fixed costs affect the costs of the other coins? How much of the variable costs will really prove to be variable? (You still need a die shop, even if you are making a few thousand fewer dies)(You still need building security even if you are making fewer coins) etc.
"Fixed costs" are only fixed in the short term. In the long term they still built a die shop so they could make so many thousands of penny dies. Much of the cost of penny production show up in depreciation because this reflects a status quo where most of the production for half a century has been related to pennies. The pensions of those who retired in 1990 are largely derived from penny production. Across the board the mint makes pennies more than anything else and then the "fixed costs" are put onto other denominations.
Cents are minted because there is demand for them. It's not more complicated than that.
If people start refusing to take them in change, stores will stop ordering them from banks. The upstream result will be that mintages will drop dramatically.
Personally, I save my cents (with other coins) and periodically dump them into the coin machine at the bank. I don't understand the people who accept them in change and then throw them away.
When the mint calculates production costs, you don't feel they include all costs of running their business?
No. They can't. Even if they could factor in things like having flat coin designs how could they divide it up properly between the different denominations. Look at it this way; for the last half century their primary business has been making pennies. But they say that pennies are costing only 3c each so for the last six months that's a paltry $30,000,000 per year. They can't blow their nose for $30,000,000 much less buy the metal, stamp and distribute 3,000,000,000 less than worthless pennies. They can't even pay the wages for so little money much less cover capital improvements and depreciation.
Government is remarkably inefficient as proven by the fact they are producing a coin that costs more to count than it is worth so how could they possibly produce it for 3c in an age that a penny piece of gum costs 25c. A penny piece of gum costs 25c largely because the government buys $600 hammers and pennies even they admit cost 3c.
If you refuse to accept pennies you are out a couple cents on every transaction. This is not an alternative. Some stores are rounding up and I don't mind making an extra couple cents. Common sense would be to round to the nearest nickel, dime, or quarter and I wouldn't mind this but bear in mind that I can hit $30.12 worth of gasoline every time so rounding will work against some businesses.
Just so it doesn't work against me.
this article has lines for each denomination for
Sales, General & Administrative ($)
Distribution to Reserve Banks ($)
https://coinnews.net/2024/02/09/penny-costs-3-07-cents-to-make-in-2023-nickel-costs-11-54-cents-us-mint-realizes-249m-in-seigniorage/
This statement makes no sense. It absolutely is an alternative for people who don't want their cent coins. For them the choices are to either refuse to accept the cents they don't want, or throw the cents on the ground in the parking lot.
For me (and apparently you) it would not be an option for the store to refuse to give me my change that is due. But if someone doesn't want their pennies in change, they can simply decline to take them. That would be preferable to throwing them away, and if enough people did that then the mint could reduce mintages.
I've been watching these mint reports almost since the 1950's and they rarely contain any surprises. But here I'm surprised by the miniscule mintages of pennies and nickels as well as the small mintage for dimes. Why are we on track to produce fewer than half a billion dimes in a year when the economy only may be in recession? We've been averaging nearly two billion dimes per year diluting the few surviving older dimes. Even a paltry half billion new dimes are another 12 dimes in circulation for each surviving 1969 for instance.
Quarter production is the only one that looks about to be expected. It's just a few percent lower than I'd have predicted.
Then there are the half dollars. Not only that they are being made by both mints but that new coin is only supposed to be issued if the supply chain is depleted. There are billions of half dollars that we have always assumed are sitting in warehouses and there is almost no "circulation" whatsoever other than their use in a few local areas with quarter shortages. So where are the warehouses full of billions of kennedy half dollars? Making substantial numbers of new coins implies either severe distribution problems or that the warehouses are depleted of half dollars as is apparently also true for the old circulating ikes. Ike mintages were low enough and the interest by the public high enough that these having been all distributed is plausible but half dollars don't attract so much attention and mintages have been multiples of ike mintage.
A few years back when the FED quit distributing ikes the wholesale price for BU rolls spiked higher. Will we see the same now with half dollars along with higher and higher mintages of new coins? Will all those bags of old scratched up VF half dollars now sport growing numbers of new BU coins?
By the by, we are now down under 30% incidence of the old eagle reverse quarters in circulation.
Of course you're right but I couldn't forego getting all of my change even if it weren't going to chiefly benefit the perpetrators of the problem; stores, banks, and the FED.
The reason mintages are high or that they are made at all is to benefit lobbyists for the zinc industry et al. One of the chief reasons zincolns appear to evaporate in air is that so many are disposed and every one tossed in the trash just increases the mintage, profits to the few, and losses to the commonweal.
Maybe the stores would react if we dropped them inside the stores.
The mint should offer a buyback program at 150% face with a daily limit for cents and nickels.
The economy is likely in worse shape than official numbers indicate. Coinage demand falls when consumers are tapped out and cutting back on discretionary spending.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I was thinking along these lines as well. Another behavior of people in a bad economy is that they cash in their change jars, so some dormant coin supply might be making it's way back into the pipeline, thus reducing the demand/need for new production.
At first I thought this was at best a joke, and at worst a really ridiculous idea. But in reality, it might have merit.
You'd need safeguards in place so people weren't simply buying rolls and boxes of cents to turn in, but if the process could be managed then it might actually save the government some money. (Assuming that is their goal. 🤔 ).
It might also give all those copper cents hoarders an exit ramp.
The cost of making a cent has not increased. The value of the dollar has declined. If you support the end of the cent, might as well eliminate all coins up to the dollar. And before long that will be worthless too.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Coins are not used as much any more, people use electronic payments and refunds way more often than cash.
So... ..when a loaf of bread costs one trillion dollars we should still keep making one dollar bills to keep inflation in check and pennies so we can get exact change?
We put ever more stress on the planet, resources, and sanity trying to hold onto what is lost. In this case what is already lost is most of the value of the US dollar.
I agree. It is clear they are monetizing the debt because they have to and it will continue. The only argument for keeping them is sales tax but at this point no one cares about being on the wrong side of a $.05 rounding error unless it results in more change. I pay for everything with cash and the pennies nickels and dimes are annoying and this is from a coin guy.