Any flowing hair experts here? I picked up a 1795 dollar and think it's a pretty rare variety
abbyme24
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Hey everyone,
I was at a coin show in Tokyo a few weeks ago and was surprised to see a 1795 Flowing Hair dollar up for auction. I ended up winning the coin and after doing some research (thanks for pointing me in the right direction @Ridley06 ) it seems that it's a BB-22 variety, which is pretty rare.
Everything seems to match up with the description given on CoinFacts, but I also am a novice when it comes to this series so I am not sure if there is anything I am missing.
Any assistance or confirmation would be greatly appreciated! I am submitting the coin at ANA for reholdering since it's quite damaged as you can see in the pics, and if it is this die variety it definitely seems worth getting the attribution.
Secondary question - any idea what CAC is looking for on these super early dollars? I am quite confident it hasn't been submitted as my understanding is the coin has been in Tokyo for a long time.
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"True" view.
Hello! I'm no expert but have a question for you. Did you pay a lot for this coin?
Another reason why I want to get it reholdered! It looks awful in the TV - so dark you could mistake it for copper.
I paid a little bit less than what they go for in the US for an unattributed/common variety.
I don't know. It kind of gives it character.
@alefzero is excellent with the early dollar varieties and should be able to answer your question.
After grading, CAC is looking for original surfaces. It's very tough to get a sticker on these because so many of them have been cleaned or otherwise messed with. This is a very attractive coin regardless. I think it's got a decent chance to sticker but if I had to bet I would bet no sticker due to some areas on the reverse.
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Thanks for tagging him and for your CAC thoughts.
I did think the splotches on the reverse look a little odd and there are some hairlines on the obverse. Also looking at other VF examples I don’t know if it’s particularly strong for a 35. Maybe before I submit it for reholdering I’ll try to get some opinions at ANA.
Per the https://www.earlydollars.org/wizardhome.htm I also came to BB-22. I didn't double check that I did it correctly though. Great snag!
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
It does appear to be a BB22. On these coins in this grade CAC is looking for nice surfaces with little evidence of past cleanings. They are somewhat forgiving of old cleanings that have mellowed, but light, unnatural surfaces will usually not pass muster. Just based on the photos provided I do not think it will sticker.
John will be at the ANA, Select Rarities, table 1515. Fantastic guy!
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
That link is super helpful! Thanks, I’ll make sure to bookmark that in the future.
I don’t think there’s any question that it’s BB-22 anymore - I just went through them all and it seems it’s the only variety with 18 berries on the reverse.
Nice looking coin, congrats! What's not to love about any 1795 dollar?
Im about 20/80 on the sticker, JA is tough on early federal. He does give a tiny bit of clemency for ancient cleanings, but regardless his line is much stricter than P or N.
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Appreciate the input, I should have sticker submission approval soon so I think I’ll send it as part of my first sub if for no other reason than to hear what it was exactly JA didn’t like. I’ll update the thread when I get it back.
My guess, from the two sets of images, is that the coin will not receive a CAC sticker. However, that is a guess and the only way to find out is to submit it. Cool coin.
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Agreed! Really neat to look at and definitely a welcome surprise to see in Tokyo.
I think there’s no doubt it’s been cleaned as there are some hairlines that look like came from wiping.
Thanks! Yes that seems to be the consensus, but plan on finding out one way or the other once I get it reholdered. Regardless of sticker I’m thrilled with the rarity of the die variety.
There is a B22 for sale @ GC as we write
Which one are you referring to? I only see one 2 leaves listed and it isn’t B22 (it has 19 berries).
My mistake, I was making a point, and that is no matter how rare collectors and dealers say a coin is, there are many others out there in those collections who cannot differentiate those varieties from another.........me for an example just made that simple mistake. Only variety specialists are looking for so-called rare varieties
Nice coin - really nice! As a B-22 variety, it makes a big difference. The PG is @ $60k, whereas most of the others are @ $15k. Personally, I am a variety collector, but not in this series. I don’t know enough like other posters about CAC requirements for these old classic dollars; regardless, you have a real winner! Congrats on a great buy!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
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230 year old, well preserved coin. Survived several wars, economic depressions, famines, earthquakes and deadly hurricanes.
230 year old coin that awaits one guy's blessing or the wheels fall off.
Really?
Thanks! I think like most PGs that figure is extremely optimistic. A VF-30 BB-22 sold for $13,200 in January so I would expect it to be closer to $15k than $60k for sure.
I agree it’s an excellent coin, and nobody is saying the wheels are going to fall off if it doesn’t CAC. This is a series I don’t collect so I bought it with the intentions of selling, hence the CAC question I posed is very relevant to its value. Whether you agree with it or not, the market has spoken regarding JA’s blessing.
@abbyme24: the PG is obviously high, but I would think there’s more value to a variety collector than the “normal” 2 leaves. Especially @ VF35….
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Yeah for sure, that $13,200 @ VF30 was for the same BB-22 variety though, so I wouldn’t expect a one point bump to bring in much more than $15k, but maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised. I’ll likely be sending it off to GC after CAC so we shall see!
Can't they tweak the image? Not sure how they could be so far off when the have the coin in hand to compare it to. Why do you think a repeat will be better? They should have a reconsideration service for TV images.
That doesn't seem to be a safe site per my AV.
It would be pretty hard for a repeat to be any worse, and I have to get it reholdered anyway due to damage and the variety attribution. This seems to have been originally holdered during the worst of the TV era (hopefully), knock on wood but my recent subs have had much more acceptable images.
Your AV is saying that because their SSL cert is expired. It’s fine to bypass it and use the site, since you’re not inputting any information (such as entering a username/password on a form) there is no actual harm from the traffic being unencrypted.
They say that about some of the most innocent of sites it seems, but I'll take a peek later.
Getting off topic a bit here but HTTPS didn’t become widely used until the early 2000’s, so for a long part of the early internet it wasn’t even a thing.
Going to a website without encrypted traffic can’t inherently do anything bad to your computer or steal information etc. It just means that if someone were to intercept your internet traffic, they could see what information you were giving to that website. But since it’s just a website you browse and not one you log into, there isn’t information for a potential bad actor to see.
All that said, there is no reason for any website in 2024 to not have a valid SSL certificate 🙃
It’s a good walk from parking lot to show. If it’s as hot as it is right now I’m not going.
Luckily Hyatt is where I stay for all my business travel and they have a Regency connected to the convention center by covered walkway, (air conditioned I hope).
I’m coming from 90’s and humid so hopefully won’t be as bad in Chicago.