@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Murph was great in his prime. I can't see a path to the 1984 MPV though.
OPS+
Murphy 149
Sandberg 140
Win Probability
Murphy 4.2
Sandberg 4.6
Run Expectancy(including men on hitting)
Murphy 35
Sandberg 44
Old School Runs Created (Runs Scored+RBI-HR)
Murphy 158
Sandberg 179
Overall, Sandberg contributed more runs and more wins offensively. Then when you consider Sandberg was elite defensively at 2B it gets very hard to put Murphy ahead of him for 1984.
1985 would be tough too...especially when Dwight Gooden should have been the absolute runaway MVP. Of all the years the writers chose a pitcher to win the award, the one year where a pitcher deserved it more than ever, they voted him fourth in the voting lol.
Now do it for 1987 and tell me who was ahead of Murphy?
Murphy has a much better case In 1987. I think we went over that in another thread. Other top contenders, Clark missed a lot of games, and so did Eric Davis.
Murphy was better than Dawson and Ozzie Smith.
I wish Murphy was in the HOF. He would be if it were the NFL where prime years are vaulted higher for HOF purposes.
I still think Murphy is going to get in.
Murphy is also the anti Bonds. If guys can be excluded based on their character, then how come nobody is in based on their character? Murphy, by all apparent eyes, is viewed as a high character person. Maybe he will be the first for that to get him over the hump.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Murph was great in his prime. I can't see a path to the 1984 MPV though.
OPS+
Murphy 149
Sandberg 140
Win Probability
Murphy 4.2
Sandberg 4.6
Run Expectancy(including men on hitting)
Murphy 35
Sandberg 44
Old School Runs Created (Runs Scored+RBI-HR)
Murphy 158
Sandberg 179
>
>
Overall, Sandberg contributed more runs and more wins offensively. Then when you consider Sandberg was elite defensively at 2B it gets very hard to put Murphy ahead of him for 1984.
>
Murphy had a better OBP, SLG and OPS. He also won a Gold Glove for Center Field play.
MAYBE Sandberg was slightly better, but it could have gone either way.
>
>
1985 would be tough too...especially when Dwight Gooden should have been the absolute runaway MVP. Of all the years the writers chose a pitcher to win the award, the one year where a pitcher deserved it more than ever, they voted him fourth in the voting lol.
>
Pitchers have the Cy Young.
Gooden appeared in 22% of his teams games. He had a superb year but the MVP should go to an everyday player.
The only guy who had SOME better numbers was Pedro Guerrero and he missed 31 games, 20% of the season.
Murphy played in every game and
Dale certainly should have been MVP.
Joe, Murph did have a slightly better OPS, and you can see that in his 149- 140 lead in OPS+. However, when you include the base running and such, then you see that Sandberg actually overtakes Murphy offensively: 44 runs above average for Sandberg to 35 for Murphy. That is a pretty good lead for Sandberg. Win Probability is the same advantage for Ryno.
Sandberg played all time great second base compared to gold glove CF, and the all time great second base defense is of more value there, so in addition to Sandberg being better offensively, he was also better defensively.
It really isn't that close. 1987 is a better fight for you to pick.
However, 1982 has several guys ahead of Murphy, so in the end, he won two and prolly deserved just the two.
Even Jason Thompson had a higher OB% and SLG% than Murphy in 1982. Yes, Jason Thompson, and yes a higher SLG% and OB%, so if your case for Murphy over Sandberg in 1984 is higher OB% and higher SLG%, then Thompson beats Murphy there in 1982.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Murph was great in his prime. I can't see a path to the 1984 MPV though.
OPS+
Murphy 149
Sandberg 140
Win Probability
Murphy 4.2
Sandberg 4.6
Run Expectancy(including men on hitting)
Murphy 35
Sandberg 44
Old School Runs Created (Runs Scored+RBI-HR)
Murphy 158
Sandberg 179
>
>
Overall, Sandberg contributed more runs and more wins offensively. Then when you consider Sandberg was elite defensively at 2B it gets very hard to put Murphy ahead of him for 1984.
>
Murphy had a better OBP, SLG and OPS. He also won a Gold Glove for Center Field play.
MAYBE Sandberg was slightly better, but it could have gone either way.
>
>
1985 would be tough too...especially when Dwight Gooden should have been the absolute runaway MVP. Of all the years the writers chose a pitcher to win the award, the one year where a pitcher deserved it more than ever, they voted him fourth in the voting lol.
>
Pitchers have the Cy Young.
Gooden appeared in 22% of his teams games. He had a superb year but the MVP should go to an everyday player.
The only guy who had SOME better numbers was Pedro Guerrero and he missed 31 games, 20% of the season.
Murphy played in every game and
Dale certainly should have been MVP.
Joe, Murph did have a slightly better OPS, and you can see that in his 149- 140 lead in OPS+. However, when you include the base running and such, then you see that Sandberg actually overtakes Murphy offensively: 44 runs above average for Sandberg to 35 for Murphy. That is a pretty good lead for Sandberg. Win Probability is the same advantage for Ryno.
Sandberg played all time great second base compared to gold glove CF, and the all time great second base defense is of more value there, so in addition to Sandberg being better offensively, he was also better defensively.
It really isn't that close. 1987 is a better fight for you to pick.
>
Yes, it's really close.
>
>
However, 1982 has several guys ahead of Murphy, so in the end, he won two and prolly deserved just the two.
Even Jason Thompson had a higher OB% and SLG% than Murphy in 1982. Yes, Jason Thompson, and yes a higher SLG% and OB%, so if your case for Murphy over Sandberg in 1984 is higher OB% and higher SLG%, then Thompson beats Murphy there in 1982.
>
>
I did say Schmidt deserved it.
Not sure if I'm not expressing my thoughts clearly, but I'll try it in another way;
5 out of 6 years Murphy wouldn't have been a BAD choice for MVP.
He missed 1 game a year on average an won 5 Gold Gloves in Center Field.
I don't believe I ever said he "deserved" 4 or 5 MVP's, I asked if he had won 4, would he be in the HOF?
He played well enough imo, so that if the voters had decided to give him maybe even 1 more he would be in the HOF.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Murph was great in his prime. I can't see a path to the 1984 MPV though.
OPS+
Murphy 149
Sandberg 140
Win Probability
Murphy 4.2
Sandberg 4.6
Run Expectancy(including men on hitting)
Murphy 35
Sandberg 44
Old School Runs Created (Runs Scored+RBI-HR)
Murphy 158
Sandberg 179
>
>
Overall, Sandberg contributed more runs and more wins offensively. Then when you consider Sandberg was elite defensively at 2B it gets very hard to put Murphy ahead of him for 1984.
>
Murphy had a better OBP, SLG and OPS. He also won a Gold Glove for Center Field play.
MAYBE Sandberg was slightly better, but it could have gone either way.
>
>
1985 would be tough too...especially when Dwight Gooden should have been the absolute runaway MVP. Of all the years the writers chose a pitcher to win the award, the one year where a pitcher deserved it more than ever, they voted him fourth in the voting lol.
>
Pitchers have the Cy Young.
Gooden appeared in 22% of his teams games. He had a superb year but the MVP should go to an everyday player.
The only guy who had SOME better numbers was Pedro Guerrero and he missed 31 games, 20% of the season.
Murphy played in every game and
Dale certainly should have been MVP.
Joe, Murph did have a slightly better OPS, and you can see that in his 149- 140 lead in OPS+. However, when you include the base running and such, then you see that Sandberg actually overtakes Murphy offensively: 44 runs above average for Sandberg to 35 for Murphy. That is a pretty good lead for Sandberg. Win Probability is the same advantage for Ryno.
Sandberg played all time great second base compared to gold glove CF, and the all time great second base defense is of more value there, so in addition to Sandberg being better offensively, he was also better defensively.
It really isn't that close. 1987 is a better fight for you to pick.
>
Yes, it's really close.
>
>
However, 1982 has several guys ahead of Murphy, so in the end, he won two and prolly deserved just the two.
Even Jason Thompson had a higher OB% and SLG% than Murphy in 1982. Yes, Jason Thompson, and yes a higher SLG% and OB%, so if your case for Murphy over Sandberg in 1984 is higher OB% and higher SLG%, then Thompson beats Murphy there in 1982.
>
>
I did say Schmidt deserved it.
Not sure if I'm not expressing my thoughts clearly, but I'll try it in another way;
5 out of 6 years Murphy wouldn't have been a BAD choice for MVP.
He missed 1 game a year on average an won 5 Gold Gloves in Center Field.
I don't believe I ever said he "deserved" 4 or 5 MVP's, I asked if he had won 4, would he be in the HOF?
He played well enough imo, so that if the voters had decided to give him maybe even 1 more he would be in the HOF.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
Murph was great in his prime. I can't see a path to the 1984 MPV though.
OPS+
Murphy 149
Sandberg 140
Win Probability
Murphy 4.2
Sandberg 4.6
Run Expectancy(including men on hitting)
Murphy 35
Sandberg 44
Old School Runs Created (Runs Scored+RBI-HR)
Murphy 158
Sandberg 179
Overall, Sandberg contributed more runs and more wins offensively. Then when you consider Sandberg was elite defensively at 2B it gets very hard to put Murphy ahead of him for 1984.
1985 would be tough too...especially when Dwight Gooden should have been the absolute runaway MVP. Of all the years the writers chose a pitcher to win the award, the one year where a pitcher deserved it more than ever, they voted him fourth in the voting lol.
Now do it for 1987 and tell me who was ahead of Murphy?
Murphy has a much better case In 1987. I think we went over that in another thread. Other top contenders, Clark missed a lot of games, and so did Eric Davis.
Murphy was better than Dawson and Ozzie Smith.
I wish Murphy was in the HOF. He would be if it were the NFL where prime years are vaulted higher for HOF purposes.
I still think Murphy is going to get in.
Murphy is also the anti Bonds. If guys can be excluded based on their character, then how come nobody is in based on their character? Murphy, by all apparent eyes, is viewed as a high character person. Maybe he will be the first for that to get him over the hump.
@DocBenjamin said:
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
I didn't realize that there are only TWO players who started their career after 1970 and who's primary position was centerfield that are in the HOF...Puckett and Griffey. Just two.
@DocBenjamin said:
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
Fred Lynn is probably the most under rated, least discussed player on these boards.
Maybe it was because when he was good he was so much better than everyone, people expected it every year?
He might have been inconsistent, but he was a GG outfielder and ended up with a lifetime OPS+ of 129 and a lifetime SLG of .484. Both great numbers better than Dale Murphy's.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
I didn't realize that there are only TWO players who started their career after 1970 and who's primary position was centerfield that are in the HOF...Puckett and Griffey. Just two.
Bernie Williams was very good!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@DocBenjamin said:
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
Fred Lynn is probably the most under rated, least discussed player on these boards.
Maybe it was because when he was good he was so much better than everyone, people expected it every year?
He might have been inconsistent, but he was a GG outfielder and ended up with a lifetime OPS+ of 129 and a lifetime SLG of .484. Both great numbers better than Dale Murphy's.
Yes.
Also, talk about should have been MVP's. He was robbed on monumental scale in 1979 for MVP.
He got hurt a lot and played through it. Sometimes he couldn't though and he missed time, so as a result, both his counting numbers and percentage numbers suffered. Even with that, he was still good enough to be a HOFer.
He also gets downgraded defensively in the faulty metrics. Defensive metrics have about 20% validity, if that. Lynn could go get it in CF as good as anyone.
@DocBenjamin said:
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
Fred Lynn is probably the most under rated, least discussed player on these boards.
Maybe it was because when he was good he was so much better than everyone, people expected it every year?
He might have been inconsistent, but he was a GG outfielder and ended up with a lifetime OPS+ of 129 and a lifetime SLG of .484. Both great numbers better than Dale Murphy's.
Yes.
Also, talk about should have been MVP's. He was robbed on monumental scale in 1979 for MVP.
>
>
ABSOLUTELY!
>
>
He got hurt a lot and played through it. Sometimes he couldn't though and he missed time, so as a result, both his counting numbers and percentage numbers suffered. Even with that, he was still good enough to be a HOFer.
He also gets downgraded defensively in the faulty metrics. Defensive metrics have about 20% validity, if that. Lynn could go get it in CF as good as anyone.
He was a stellar fielder, getting hurt because you go "all out" to get every ball shouldn't decrease your value.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@DocBenjamin said:
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
Fred Lynn is probably the most under rated, least discussed player on these boards.
Maybe it was because when he was good he was so much better than everyone, people expected it every year?
He might have been inconsistent, but he was a GG outfielder and ended up with a lifetime OPS+ of 129 and a lifetime SLG of .484. Both great numbers better than Dale Murphy's.
Fred Lynn?
The same guy who was top 10 in WAR early in his career, then never sniffed it again? If he was 'so much better than everyone', he would have consistently ranked in the top 10 in WAR. At least Murphy had four such seasons and stretched them over 7 seasons.
What's clearly happening in these discussions are people recalling players they loved watching growing up and are looking at them through those lenses and not in an objective light.
None of these guys talked about in this thread (Murphy, Lynn, Bernie) are remotely worthy of Hall induction and the voters have proven as such. They had nice careers, but like all of us here, are only getting into the hall buying a ticket.
@DocBenjamin said:
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
Fred Lynn is probably the most under rated, least discussed player on these boards.
Maybe it was because when he was good he was so much better than everyone, people expected it every year?
He might have been inconsistent, but he was a GG outfielder and ended up with a lifetime OPS+ of 129 and a lifetime SLG of .484. Both great numbers better than Dale Murphy's.
Fred Lynn?
The same guy who was top 10 in WAR early in his career, then never sniffed it again? If he was 'so much better than everyone', he would have consistently ranked in the top 10 in WAR. At least Murphy had four such seasons and stretched them over 7 seasons.
What's clearly happening in these discussions are people recalling players they loved watching growing up and are looking at them through those lenses and not in an objective light.
None of these guys talked about in this thread (Murphy, Lynn, Bernie) are remotely worthy of Hall induction and the voters have proven as such. They had nice careers, but like all of us here, are only getting into the hall buying a ticket.
I absolutely can't stand your posts! You are obviously someone who has been banned in the past and you do nothing but try to irritate.
This is the final time I reply to one of them.
You took offense to my completely valid statement that if there's one person in the HOF better than Murphy he should be in. I had PLENTY of other evidence, but you chose to ignore those points, including the fact that I wasn't that sure he actually belonged.
So, I decided to waste yet more of my time and looked up some numbers on the 3 players you mentioned;
Bernie Williams, 90 players are in the HOF with a lower OPS, 24 of those players have the same or fewer years of service.
Fred Lynn, 72 players with lower OPS, 25 with the same or fewer years in MLB.
Dale Murphy, 41 players with a lower OPS and 16 with the same or fewer years played.
All three of these guys are multiple Gold Glove winners in Center Field, so they were outstanding defensively in an important position. A few of the guys below these 3 in OPS are catchers and shortstops, so they might get elevated.
Discussing Murphy, (probably the least deserving of the 3), there's a few with a lower OPS and years of service that might be better (Sandberg might be better for one), but there's also going to be several with more years played that weren't as good.
So, your statement that "None of these guys talked about in this thread (Murphy, Lynn, Bernie) are remotely worthy of Hall induction and the voters have proven as such." is as wrong as it gets.
Goodbye.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
You guys should definitely isolate in your resonance chambers and take offense at any opposing viewpoints. I thought when he labeled everyone here snowflakes that it was way over the top but…. Guy might have a point.
@1948_Swell_Robinson said:
I didn't realize that there are only TWO players who started their career after 1970 and who's primary position was centerfield that are in the HOF...Puckett and Griffey. Just two.
@JoeBanzai said:
I looked it up. Only souls of great warriors abide in Valhalla...........no trolls allowed.
The Einherjar train all day and feast all night to prepare for Ragnarok and the battle against the Jotnar. If you have a chance to visit Ullensvang I recommend the hike to the Trolltunga. When you return you’ll want to warm up with a nice meal and there will be lots of locals eager to treat you to stories of trolls in Norse mythology. I thought this was taught in all Minnesota schools. (Joking). But a seriously great place to visit.
@JoeBanzai said:
Can you get a resonance chamber? Build one?
Oh to be enclosed in an environment without trolls.
Valhalla would be achieved!
Questioning my understanding of Valhalla lore now. I was almost sure it was ripe with Trolls and fighting was on the menu.
Nirvana then?
They had some good songs. 😉
Speaking of amazing places. Aberdeen has a sign when you enter claiming Nirvana, and specifically, Cobain. A big billboard. Which is ironic if you’ve read how much he hated that place. But once you drive through the meth capital of Washington state you reach a beautiful place called Moclips. The beaches there are incredible and if you like sand dollars…. Well you can barely walk 5 feet without stepping on one.
Andruw Jones is interesting case. If you buy into his defensive value then he could be. If you buy into him not doing any PED's while most of the league was, then he could be there too.
Remember, WAR is weighting defensive value as valid as offense, and defense validity just isn't the same. So that is where WAR gets some head scratching figures.
Jones is really the poster child of what do you have to do to be considered HOF worthy. He was the best CFer for a decade and then got fat when he left the Braves. He would be remembered differently if he stopped playing when he was 30. I think he should be in especially with some of the other players that have gotten in but can understand arguments that he fell off to quickly
@Basebal21 said:
Jones is really the poster child of what do you have to do to be considered HOF worthy. He was the best CFer for a decade and then got fat when he left the Braves. He would be remembered differently if he stopped playing when he was 30. I think he should be in especially with some of the other players that have gotten in but can understand arguments that he fell off to quickly
He was better than you know who.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Having the most wins explained the Cy Young Award winner in MOST seasons for the first few decades of the award. Sometimes, the pitcher with the most wins also happened to be the best pitcher, but "most wins" was a much better predictor of the award winner then "best pitcher".
Sportswriters appear to have become smarter recently, and I don't know if there are many left who still believe "wins" is a pitcher stat.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Comments
That makes sense. Above average pitcher for a long period of time.
Not hof worthy.
I would agree.
Murphy has a much better case In 1987. I think we went over that in another thread. Other top contenders, Clark missed a lot of games, and so did Eric Davis.
Murphy was better than Dawson and Ozzie Smith.
I wish Murphy was in the HOF. He would be if it were the NFL where prime years are vaulted higher for HOF purposes.
I still think Murphy is going to get in.
Murphy is also the anti Bonds. If guys can be excluded based on their character, then how come nobody is in based on their character? Murphy, by all apparent eyes, is viewed as a high character person. Maybe he will be the first for that to get him over the hump.
Joe, Murph did have a slightly better OPS, and you can see that in his 149- 140 lead in OPS+. However, when you include the base running and such, then you see that Sandberg actually overtakes Murphy offensively: 44 runs above average for Sandberg to 35 for Murphy. That is a pretty good lead for Sandberg. Win Probability is the same advantage for Ryno.
Sandberg played all time great second base compared to gold glove CF, and the all time great second base defense is of more value there, so in addition to Sandberg being better offensively, he was also better defensively.
It really isn't that close. 1987 is a better fight for you to pick.
However, 1982 has several guys ahead of Murphy, so in the end, he won two and prolly deserved just the two.
Even Jason Thompson had a higher OB% and SLG% than Murphy in 1982. Yes, Jason Thompson, and yes a higher SLG% and OB%, so if your case for Murphy over Sandberg in 1984 is higher OB% and higher SLG%, then Thompson beats Murphy there in 1982.
>
Yes, it's really close.
>
>
>
>
I did say Schmidt deserved it.
Not sure if I'm not expressing my thoughts clearly, but I'll try it in another way;
5 out of 6 years Murphy wouldn't have been a BAD choice for MVP.
He missed 1 game a year on average an won 5 Gold Gloves in Center Field.
I don't believe I ever said he "deserved" 4 or 5 MVP's, I asked if he had won 4, would he be in the HOF?
He played well enough imo, so that if the voters had decided to give him maybe even 1 more he would be in the HOF.
Sounds reasonable to me.
High character was what got Crime Dog in.
I retract that last comment. McGriff's batting numbers were better than Murphy's.
Substantially better.
Yes, McGriff the better hitter, but Murphy played Center Field and won several Gold Gloves. Fred played First Base.
I believe Murphy is very similar to Fred Lynn...and I would be happy to see both of them go in. There are not many centerfielders from the 70's/80's in the HOF.
I didn't realize that there are only TWO players who started their career after 1970 and who's primary position was centerfield that are in the HOF...Puckett and Griffey. Just two.
Fred Lynn is probably the most under rated, least discussed player on these boards.
Maybe it was because when he was good he was so much better than everyone, people expected it every year?
He might have been inconsistent, but he was a GG outfielder and ended up with a lifetime OPS+ of 129 and a lifetime SLG of .484. Both great numbers better than Dale Murphy's.
Bernie Williams was very good!
Yes.
Also, talk about should have been MVP's. He was robbed on monumental scale in 1979 for MVP.
He got hurt a lot and played through it. Sometimes he couldn't though and he missed time, so as a result, both his counting numbers and percentage numbers suffered. Even with that, he was still good enough to be a HOFer.
He also gets downgraded defensively in the faulty metrics. Defensive metrics have about 20% validity, if that. Lynn could go get it in CF as good as anyone.
>
>
ABSOLUTELY!
>
>
He was a stellar fielder, getting hurt because you go "all out" to get every ball shouldn't decrease your value.
Fred Lynn?
The same guy who was top 10 in WAR early in his career, then never sniffed it again? If he was 'so much better than everyone', he would have consistently ranked in the top 10 in WAR. At least Murphy had four such seasons and stretched them over 7 seasons.
What's clearly happening in these discussions are people recalling players they loved watching growing up and are looking at them through those lenses and not in an objective light.
None of these guys talked about in this thread (Murphy, Lynn, Bernie) are remotely worthy of Hall induction and the voters have proven as such. They had nice careers, but like all of us here, are only getting into the hall buying a ticket.
I absolutely can't stand your posts! You are obviously someone who has been banned in the past and you do nothing but try to irritate.
This is the final time I reply to one of them.
You took offense to my completely valid statement that if there's one person in the HOF better than Murphy he should be in. I had PLENTY of other evidence, but you chose to ignore those points, including the fact that I wasn't that sure he actually belonged.
So, I decided to waste yet more of my time and looked up some numbers on the 3 players you mentioned;
Bernie Williams, 90 players are in the HOF with a lower OPS, 24 of those players have the same or fewer years of service.
Fred Lynn, 72 players with lower OPS, 25 with the same or fewer years in MLB.
Dale Murphy, 41 players with a lower OPS and 16 with the same or fewer years played.
All three of these guys are multiple Gold Glove winners in Center Field, so they were outstanding defensively in an important position. A few of the guys below these 3 in OPS are catchers and shortstops, so they might get elevated.
Discussing Murphy, (probably the least deserving of the 3), there's a few with a lower OPS and years of service that might be better (Sandberg might be better for one), but there's also going to be several with more years played that weren't as good.
So, your statement that "None of these guys talked about in this thread (Murphy, Lynn, Bernie) are remotely worthy of Hall induction and the voters have proven as such." is as wrong as it gets.
Goodbye.
If you don't have Mistlin blocked, why? Life is too short.
Oh yeah, he's definitely on the ignore list.
So many to ignore, so few ignores allowed...........sigh.
You guys should definitely isolate in your resonance chambers and take offense at any opposing viewpoints. I thought when he labeled everyone here snowflakes that it was way over the top but…. Guy might have a point.
Can you get a resonance chamber? Build one?
Oh to be enclosed in an environment without trolls.
Valhalla would be achieved!
Yes indeed.
Questioning my understanding of Valhalla lore now. I was almost sure it was ripe with Trolls and fighting was on the menu.
Nirvana then?
They had some good songs. 😉
I looked it up. Only souls of great warriors abide in Valhalla...........no trolls allowed.
By the way. Mistlin seems to have YOU labeled as a troll.
"Guy might have a point "???????
Definitely Nirvana.
Are either of these HOF worthy?
The Einherjar train all day and feast all night to prepare for Ragnarok and the battle against the Jotnar. If you have a chance to visit Ullensvang I recommend the hike to the Trolltunga. When you return you’ll want to warm up with a nice meal and there will be lots of locals eager to treat you to stories of trolls in Norse mythology. I thought this was taught in all Minnesota schools. (Joking). But a seriously great place to visit.
Speaking of amazing places. Aberdeen has a sign when you enter claiming Nirvana, and specifically, Cobain. A big billboard. Which is ironic if you’ve read how much he hated that place. But once you drive through the meth capital of Washington state you reach a beautiful place called Moclips. The beaches there are incredible and if you like sand dollars…. Well you can barely walk 5 feet without stepping on one.
Killebrew absolute no brainer yes.
Andruw Jones is interesting case. If you buy into his defensive value then he could be. If you buy into him not doing any PED's while most of the league was, then he could be there too.
Remember, WAR is weighting defensive value as valid as offense, and defense validity just isn't the same. So that is where WAR gets some head scratching figures.
With a WAR that much higher Jones must have played all three outfield positions at the same time.
Jones is really the poster child of what do you have to do to be considered HOF worthy. He was the best CFer for a decade and then got fat when he left the Braves. He would be remembered differently if he stopped playing when he was 30. I think he should be in especially with some of the other players that have gotten in but can understand arguments that he fell off to quickly
Missouri 14 OSU 3
He was better than you know who.
I always thought Parker should've won it in 85.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Why didn't Mike Norris win the Cy Young in 1980?
I think more reasons than one created a confluence. But this is just my opinion.
Best guess.
I was leaning toward the win total, guess wins were factored more heavily back then?
Having the most wins explained the Cy Young Award winner in MOST seasons for the first few decades of the award. Sometimes, the pitcher with the most wins also happened to be the best pitcher, but "most wins" was a much better predictor of the award winner then "best pitcher".
Sportswriters appear to have become smarter recently, and I don't know if there are many left who still believe "wins" is a pitcher stat.