You can now CT scan packs/cartons? This could single handedly RUIN the hobby (well the modern part)
Estil
Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭✭
So lately I've been getting stories in my YouTube that apparently you can use portable CT scanners (they're expensive for now but like any tech it will get cheaper over time) to look through packs/cartons and cherry pick the big inserts? I mean there's already enough of a problem with people messing up retail displays using scales and outright stealing cards and whatnot but this is a whole 'nother level. Don't you see how easy it is for someone with one of these portable CT scanners to look through all the packs/cartons and after picking out the ones with big inserts and sell off the rest? How would anyone even know?
I already pretty much ignore most modern collecting (I always find vintage/retro most anything to be more fascinating/interesting) but if something isn't done about this, somehow, this could easily destroy the modern hobby.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Comments
I also couldnt care less about new product, but it is important to the hobby as a whole. Perhaps lead lined boxes!?!?!?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
All the more reason I'm concerned about this. I mean sure I personally don't care for most of modern (except Heritage and I'd like to at some point get my regular Topps set sequence more up to date) but it takes all different kinds of collectors to make the world go 'round, right?
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
What does it do to Lottery tickets? Is that possible? Its seeing outlines in the cards right? Or what does it do?
As a matter of fact Topps did infamously goof in 1992 when they had scratch off cards where you could earn Topps Gold cards but the cardboard I guess was too thin and allowed you to see the right answers without having to scratch off anything. Because they ended up with too many of these being redeemed, the Gold cards sent back also had "Winner" on them.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Fun times. The flashlights sure have changed.
I thought the hobby was already ruined. But, more shambles.
Gobble.
yup, the old flashlight trick. could see right through. I had so many "winners"
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I always considered unopened to be a gateway to more advanced collecting. If this slows the growth of "rippers" I think it will eventually harm the hobby as a whole as a newer generation of collectors may leave the hobby over junk like this.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
If I recall correctly it was that the grey coating covering the answers spot was too thin. They eventually double coated the areas after the discovery of the issue.
Based on what I’ve read, it can only detect foil - theoretically, it would be able to ID numbered cards, but if they’re numbered paper and you see 1/5 I’m not sure it could tell if it was the hot new rookie or the ancient washed up has been unless the card was also some sort of foil.
It could certainly raise questions, but the biggest one to me is the following - I send them a 2024 pack, they scan it and find a big hit, then they keep it and return a different pack of the same release. They claim to be working towards providing a tamper proof bag to ship your pack in, but that doesn’t seem foolproof to me either (they unseal it, replace it, then reseal it and fake the tamper-proof part that they supplied to me in the first place? If they printed the QR code the first time, they could do it a second time).
Jim
This was one of my favorite things - taking the flashlight into the pantry and looking through the cardboard. My recollection was the opposite - I remember the ones you could see through were made of white, thinner cardboard. I then remember thicker, grey-back cardboard being used where you couldn't see through. That's not to say they didn't also put more grey coating, though. I was so excited when I figured out the trick and thought I was the smartest person in the world! LOL. Good times.
My idea of advanced collecting pretty much from the first time I got packs of cards was being able to do early 70s and then 60s sets...
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
You could just block the scan with some fairly inexpensive material. Considering the cost of a modern sports card box it’s negligible. You know the mesh on your windshield which blocks UV? The same solution can be used to block x ray.
There is a company now providing a card pack and box scanning service.
Card scanning is not new, just more public.
And the focus is on modern because it's easier with foil, logoman, auto, etc. and it's all about the big hits, but the examples shown on their website shows you can see the "silhouette" image of (I think) base pokemon to determine the cards.
There is also a video of a Topps pack being scanned layer by layer.
https://industrialinspection.com/card-ct-scanning-service/
(* I am not affiliated with this company or promoting it in any way. Just providing information.)
It reminds me in the 90s of someone asking in Beckett if there was a way to tell if a 1993 Stadium Club pack had a First Day Issue inside without having to buy a whole carton to get it (they were a one per carton insert) or having to buy them at great expense. To which Beckett pointed out how unfair it'd be and that if too many people knew some secret way of getting them it might drive down the cards' value as well. To say nothing of how hesitant one might be to buy packs/cartons if they know there's a good chance it might have already been scanned or picked through or whatnot.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I do agree but what is their incentive? Fanatics makes the same money regardless of who the end purchaser may be. New pack-box Game been rigged in different forms for a long time yet folks still buy ...
Well someone could sell them cheap to a breaker. Or a breaker could buy a machine. And Im sure other options as well with this.
I'd say never spend serious money on a single loose pack unless you know and trust the person it came from. Or if you've experimented and had success with the same seller in the past, repeat. I know its not fun and hard to give it up if its your thing. Everybody will do what they want to do. I dont mind spending $20 at Target and saying nothing there but fun to try. Even with this new concern, think these situations have been around a while. Someone opens a 1983 Topps box and gets Boggs Gwynn and Sandberg in the first 20 packs so its time to sell those last 12 packs as a Look! WOW! Unopened. Chance for Boggs Sandberg Gwynn!!!! Or someone opens 7 packs and sees they are all diamond cut or hideously off center or both and those last 29 packs get slabbed by PSA as being unopened and in great condition.
Even with boxes I close to every time feel it was bad value. Then I may buy the singles I hoped I got and realize what an astronomically better deal it was. Then next time dont buy the box and just buy the stuff I hope I find in the boxes. Bought 3 2024 Topps Chrome boxes and man it was fun but even getting what gets labeled a "case hit" still feel very underwater overall.
Think even with this situation the hobby lives on with the young collectors. Like me they can just buy the cards they want on eBay or at a show. Then they can go to the show with their little case and try to swap them for something else. That feels like an enormous part of the hobby today. Its not always easy to see what people are selling cause you have a handful of younger people with the case on the table in the process of negotiating or waiting their turn.
And some of you guys wonder why I take the easy way out and just get the set...I know it's a bit boring to do it that way and the idea of say opening a hobby carton of 2024 Topps Heritage every month (just as an example) would be fun, it just seems a lot cheaper and easier just to get the master set (includes SPs and non #'ed inserts; the insert sets that cover historical events really interesting and may kinda be worth just doing those alone) and really, what are the odds you'll get anything worth significantly more than the hobby carton's going rate (~$100) that you can easily sell? I'm guessing as my late grandpa would say, possible but not probable.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I think
I would assume that as the general perception that the “game is rigged” increases the baseline purchases decrease. So their incentive would be to maximize their value.
They only make the same money regardless when we assume the outcome.
That outcome has been what has always occurred for Fanatics.
Unless that outcome changes there is no incentive. Even then a company like Fanatics will need proof the CT scanning is cause. At very best it'll be a long time before any preventitive action will be implemented.
Maybe I'm not understanding the issue completely, but is it being suggested that knowing what exactly is in the packs prior to opening, or selling, will "ruin the hobby"?
Is this seen as a new issue?
Topps and Fleer always had a fairly predictable sequencing, so clear rack pack and cello packs by those manufacturers, and to a slightly lesser extent their wax packs, were always really easy to cherry pick and get the best cards.
UFFDAH's thread seems to be one of the most popular, and it doesn't seem to have ruined the hobby that he's busting packs with a high probability of big hits.
I think the concerns being raised are more about the modern hits, those 2-4 cards in the middle of the pack that are completely random, and the impact it could have on reselling unopened product. If there’s a case hit or a box hit, someone could scan all boxes / packs, pull out the box or pack with the hit, then resell the others to buyers who don’t know that there’s no chance at the big hit.
I still think the types of cards that can be found are limited and the imaging of those cards is limited, so I’m not sure if it’ll be able to tell if a 1/1 is Paul Skenes or Rowdy Tellez…
Jim
I kind of feel that has already had the possibility of occurring long before this latest technology. I haven't opened a tremendous amount of modern, but when I've opened multiple cases of Heritage, the hot box was always in the same position in the case. When opening multiple boxes of Heritage, the relic/autograph was always in the same pack position in each box. If I dig around, I'm sure I can find my notes on the sequencing for 89-90 Fleer basketball in order to cherry pick the rack packs for Jordan or the 87 Topps sequencing for my boy Bo Jackson. UFFDAH is pulling out Batman #1s and Jim Brown rookies, almost at will. It's the same song, different dance.