Home World & Ancient Coins Forum

What are the oldest coins that have a date?

jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

I’m becoming intrigued with the idea of collecting some of the oldest coins that carry an actual date stamped on the coin. Can you suggest some candidates?

Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

I knew it would happen.

Comments

  • SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2024 6:14PM

    Well, the Greek and Roman coins should also qualify as "European". I believe the "first coins on the European continent to have ANY date written with Roman numerals" would be the extremely scarce (and valuable) gold aureus of emperor Hadrian, dated "ANN DCCCLXXIIII NAT VRB", Year 874 AUC or AD 121: https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/sear5/s3384.html

    That Wildwinds example sold for $39,000 back in 2004.

    And if the OP is only interested in coins with AD dates on them, there is a book on the subject: The Early Dated Coins of Europe 1234-1500 by Levinson, a comprehensive listing of every coin up to 1500 that bears an AD date. https://www.amazon.com.au/Early-Dated-Coins-Europe-1234-1500/dp/0871846004

    The only AD-dated coins not listed in that book are those that weren't struck in Europe: the Crusader coins struck in Acre in the 1250s, written in Arabic and made in the style of Islamic coinage but with Christian inscriptions and dating replacing the Islamic ones. Again, not common and not cheap. https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/78995 and this one sold recently for 12000 euros: https://www.ma-shops.com/thomasnumismatics/item.php?id=1419

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,422 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1775 4 reales (from mexico i belive) (crs flared up tis am)

  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These are the first Anno Domini dated gold coins. Again, Roman numerals.


    The second coin is one of only 3 available to collectors.

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2024 12:28PM

    @Sapyx said:
    The only AD-dated coins not listed in that book are those that weren't struck in Europe: the Crusader coins struck in Acre in the 1250s, written in Arabic and made in the style of Islamic coinage but with Christian inscriptions and dating replacing the Islamic ones. Again, not common and not cheap. https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/78995 and this one sold recently for 12000 euros: https://www.ma-shops.com/thomasnumismatics/item.php?id=1419

    Here’s mine. After the 1234 Danish coin this is the earliest AD date. “1251” is written in Arabic script.


  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is the first Anno Domini dated copper coin.

    Date on right image between 10 and 12 o'clock. Modern Arabic/positional date.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,902 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you, fellas. I was hoping to see coins like these, and I'm blown away!

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some interesting trivia about those Crusader-Arabic coins.

    In standard Arabic, numbers are written "backwards" compared to western numbers. In Arabic, the number 1251 ought to be written "one and fifty and two hundred and one thousand". But on these coins, the date structure is mixed up: "one thousand and two hundred and one and fifty". It's evidence that, though at least some of the Crusaders could understand Arabic, they're not fully familiar with all the linguistic rules and standards.

    Finally, we have their reception. While the Pope was pleased that the Crusaders had stopped making blasphemous Islamic imitations, the coins were much less popular in the places where it mattered: the surrounding Muslim lands that traded with the Crusader state. While they had previously tolerated the imitation-Islamic coins issued by the crusaders, a good Muslim would have likely refused a coin covered in heresies such as the Trinity. Rumours spread that these Christian coins were made from poor quality gold and silver. So, a few years after the Papal legates went back to Italy, the crusaders quietly dropped these unique AD-dated coins and reverted to making counterfeit Islamic coins again.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
  • SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tibor said:
    This is the first Anno Domini dated copper coin.

    Date on right image between 10 and 12 o'clock. Modern Arabic/positional date.

    You'll also notice that on this coin, and on most other dated coins from the 1400s, the numeral "4" hasn't quite evolved into it's modern form; it's kind-of written at a 45 degree angle, and looks kind-of like a modern remembrance ribbon.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,562 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2024 12:23PM

    I was not surprised to see @tibor dominating this thread.

    Here’s my sole relevant contribution: a 1495 Frankfurt goldgulden with that curious little curlicue that is the late-medieval “4” numeral.

    If nobody else already recommended it above, let me point out the Levinson book on early dated European coins:

    https://www.amazon.com/Early-Dated-Coins-Europe-1234-1500/dp/0871846004

    Edit- aha. Someone already did. Good.


    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sapyx
    "The only AD-dated coins not listed in that book are those that weren't struck in Europe: the Crusader coins struck in Acre in the 1250s, written in Arabic and made in the style of Islamic coinage but with Christian inscriptions and dating replacing the Islamic ones. Again, not common and not cheap. https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/78995 and this one sold recently for 12000 euros: https://www.ma-shops.com/thomasnumismatics/item.php?id=1419"

    I believe all of the scholarship that you shared here is in Robert Levinson's book.
    Appendix 6, Pg. 307.

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tibor said:
    @Sapyx
    "The only AD-dated coins not listed in that book are those that weren't struck in Europe: the Crusader coins struck in Acre in the 1250s, written in Arabic and made in the style of Islamic coinage but with Christian inscriptions and dating replacing the Islamic ones. Again, not common and not cheap. https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/78995 and this one sold recently for 12000 euros: https://www.ma-shops.com/thomasnumismatics/item.php?id=1419"

    I believe all of the scholarship that you shared here is in Robert Levinson's book.
    Appendix 6, Pg. 307.

    Is that a bad thing?

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • John ConduittJohn Conduitt Posts: 419 ✭✭✭

    @Sapyx said:
    Some interesting trivia about those Crusader-Arabic coins.

    In standard Arabic, numbers are written "backwards" compared to western numbers. In Arabic, the number 1251 ought to be written "one and fifty and two hundred and one thousand". But on these coins, the date structure is mixed up: "one thousand and two hundred and one and fifty". It's evidence that, though at least some of the Crusaders could understand Arabic, they're not fully familiar with all the linguistic rules and standards.

    I believe that although in Arabic numbers are written backwards (starting with the smallest unit), the language is also written 'backwards' from right to left, which means numbers come out the 'western' way.

    The sequence is often apparently muddled on other Arabic coins, such as those of the Golden Horde. As far as I can work out, this could be due to regional differences in how the numbers are spoken. You find coins with the dates written in both words and numbers, and as in your example, each part is written in a different way. Some dialects read numbers in the western direction except the last two digits. So, 1256 would be one-thousand-and-two-hundred-and-six-and-fifty. The result looks muddled but may be as intended. A western equivalent of regional numbering differences would be saying "22 August 2024" in the UK but "August 22, 2024" in the US.

  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SimonW No not at all.

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's the "Eid Mar" denarius of Brutus, celebrating the assassination of Julius Caesar.

    Eid Mar translates to the Ides of March, or March 15th.

    Also, many coins of Judea have the year marked in Hebrew.

    Steve

Sign In or Register to comment.