What did I miss diagnosing my Jefferson Nickel as FS

MtW124

I’m fairly new to trying to collect this series and am having difficulty with what constitutes full steps. I sent in what I thought would achieve the designation and came up short of my expectations. I even over graded the coin thinking that it would get at the least a 66. This one came up short at a 65 no FS. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

1madman

So you thought this coin had a shot of being a sole top pop 1/0 67fs, but humbly graded it a 66fs? It’s certainly possible the trueview is WAY off with the dull lifeless color, but what about all the grime along the reverse edge? It does have its share of nicks/hits.

As far as the steps, pcgs cleverly shined the camera’s flood light directly on that part of the coin, making it difficult to give you specifics on where the break is. Can’t tell if I’m looking at streaks of tone, or slices in the metal itself.

If you believe that this coin is vastly undergraded as a 65, first thing I’d start with is a conservation to get rid of any haze/film and the reverse debris.

This would not be a coin I would dump money into, but to each his own.

ifthevamzarockin

MtW124

@1madman no worries, I’m just trying to figure things out. I realize my limitations on grading and just thought I would ask more knowledgeable people who collect this series so I can get better.

MFeld

Based on the images provided, I would have guessed MS63. There look to be multiple marks on Jefferson’s bust, face and hair. And there appear to be a number of scratches across the steps, in addition to areas of weakness.

ifthevamzarockin

@MFeld said:
Based on the images provided, I would have guessed MS63. There look to be multiple marks on Jefferson’s bust, face and hair. And there appear to be a number of scratches across the steps, in addition to areas of weakness.

Agree, MS-65 was a gift.

MtW124

Thanks @MFeld, I just started looking at this series as one to collect. I see what you are talking about now. This was my first submission of a Jefferson nickel. For some reason in hand I saw more that what it was. Hopefully at shows I can look at some high grade examples to get a better idea.

MtW124

@ifthevamzarockin said:

Thanks for pointing out what you see as problem areas. That helps.

MFeld

@MtW124 said:
Thanks @MFeld, I just started looking at this series as one to collect. I see what you are talking about now. This was my first submission of a Jefferson nickel. For some reason in hand I saw more that what it was. Hopefully at shows I can look at some high grade examples to get a better idea.

Viewing coins in hand is by far, the best way to learn. But there are more than enough good on-line images to access and learn from, as well.

Old_Collector

You expected at least a 66 and full steps from PCGS on a 1958 Jefferson? Not going to happen.
You should look at the pop report, there are only 16 66FS and 2 66+FS for 1958, that is one of many difficult FS years for Jeffersons.
I'm happy with a nice 64FS for many of the years.

MtW124

Thanks @Old_Collector, for the input. I think I just got overwhelmed with the thought of it turning out better than it was.

gtstang

Looks like a hit right there.

MFeld

@Old_Collector said:
You expected at least a 66 and full steps from PCGS on a 1958 Jefferson? Not going to happen.
You should look at the pop report, there are only 16 66FS and 2 66+FS for 1958, that is one of many difficult FS years for Jeffersons.
I'm happy with a nice 64FS for many of the years.

The pop report is something to consider, but I’d place far greater emphasis on the coin.

jesbroken

Here is some advice from a long time collector of Jeffs. When looking to buy or to submit Jeffersons, please spend a moment to peruse the rims on obv/rev, so many folks miss the rim nicks and scuffs that severely can hold back a grade. All look at the central items and the fields and overlook the rims. Your coin has several nicks and some tough scuffs that makes your grade of 65 a gift. Note from the photo below, that at the end of the scuff you can see the metal continues to be disturbed, so a meaningful scuff. While you may find many early Jeffs with what some consider incomplete steps, yet labeled FS, you usually will not find the later ones with much latitude on the steps. Good luck and buy a good book on the series and actually read it, there will be much educational benefit beyond the photos. This is all just my opinion, so take it just as it is.
Jim

alaura22

Question on this one, is the vertical mark on the left enough to take it out of full steps?

Thanks for any remarks

CRHer700

Pretty much all the nickels from 1958 or so to 1970 are hard, and I mean hard to find fully struck with full steps. The master dies and hubs had mushed quite a bit since 1939.

MtW124

Thanks @gtstang and @jesbroken i will do that.

CRHer700

Pretty much all the nickels from 1958 or so to 1970 are hard, and I mean hard to find fully struck with full steps. The master dies and hubs had mushed quite a bit since 1939.

MtW124

@CRHer700 thanks for that information.

CRHer700

@MtW124 said:
@CRHer700 thanks for that information.

You're very welcome, I recommend the book A Guide Book of Buffalo and Jefferson Nickels by David Bowers. It really helped me with this.

davewesen

@alaura22 said:
Question on this one, is the vertical mark on the left enough to take it out of full steps?

Thanks for any remarks

Usually, but occasionally a similar one may get the FS designation even with the weakness under pillar 2.

coinbuf

@alaura22 said:
Question on this one, is the vertical mark on the left enough to take it out of full steps?

Thanks for any remarks

It should disqualify the coin from a FS designation and would if I were a grader. But FS is just one of several designations that the TPG's are very inconsistent with, I've seen coins like yours get the FS and others not.

Clackamas1

@MFeld said:
Based on the images provided, I would have guessed MS63. There look to be multiple marks on Jefferson’s bust, face and hair. And there appear to be a number of scratches across the steps, in addition to areas of weakness.

MS 63 Jeffs are beat to heck and never see the grading room. I find this as a 65 being correct. The metal is so hard that planchet flaws don't all get struck out. If you increased the size up to the size of a Morgan would you 63 it? I hope not.

Old_Collector

@MFeld said:

@Old_Collector said:
You expected at least a 66 and full steps from PCGS on a 1958 Jefferson? Not going to happen.
You should look at the pop report, there are only 16 66FS and 2 66+FS for 1958, that is one of many difficult FS years for Jeffersons.
I'm happy with a nice 64FS for many of the years.

The pop report is something to consider, but I’d place far greater emphasis on the coin.

Of course, you are correct that the coin is THE most important factor without a doubt, but just from a blind odds standpoint, it would be tough to expect a top pop grade with a single submission for someone new to Jeffersons.