It's important not to confuse apples with oranges. Coins within a series and coins in different series.
One only needs to look at the PCGS Barber Dime Price Guide to see coins within a series do go up and down in value.
An example, the 1905-O with a MS66 population of 21+6 and valued at $3,250 has been overvalued for a long time when compared to the 1905-S with a MS66 population of 9+4 and valued at $$1,650. Sure enough, it went down another $250 since the last price guide.
Needless to say, I won't be buying a 1905-O any time soon.
@DisneyFan said:
It's important not to confuse apples with oranges. Coins within a series and coins in different series.
One only needs to look at the PCGS Barber Dime Price Guide to see coins within a series do go up and down in value.
An example, the 1905-O with a MS66 population of 21+6 and valued at $3,250 has been overvalued for a long time when compared to the 1905-S with a MS66 population of 9+4 and valued at $$1,650. Sure enough, it went down another $250 since the last price guide.
Needless to say, I won't be buying a 1905-O any time soon.
Greysheet is $1800 and $1200.
I'm not sure looking at only the 66 population is the way to go. The entirr certified population is 380 for the S and 314 for the O. So at least some of what is driving the price of the S is that it is scarcer overall.
I'm actually looking for the right Morgan proof in that price range. Not in a hurry like I used to be. I've learned good deals can be had if you can be patient. I've buried myself so many times because I wasn't patient. To me $5k is alot of money. I would hate to spend it on a $4k proof.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo
@DisneyFan said:
An example, the 1905-O with a MS66 population of 21+6 and valued at $3,250 has been overvalued for a long time when compared to the 1905-S with a MS66 population of 9+4 and valued at $$1,650. Sure enough, it went down another $250 since the last price guide.
Needless to say, I won't be buying a 1905-O any time soon.
Greysheet is $1800 and $1200.
I'm not sure looking at only the 66 population is the way to go. The risk certified population is 380 for the S and 314 for the O. So at least some of what is driving the price of the S is that it is scarcer overall.
So theoretically the 1905-O wholesales at $1,800 and "retails" at $3,000 while the 1905-S wholesales at $1,200 and "retails" at $1,650. The former has a 88% markup and the later 38%. Again, this tells you the 1905-O is overvalued. That 38% markup is not insignificant either. Dealers will justify the 38% markup because they say Barbers are slow sellers; but, where are the MS coins?
The desirable range for mint state Barbers is MS64 - MS67. There are 92 1905-Os in that range and 102 1905-Ss - a difference of ten coins. That should not justify a 82% premium for the 1905-O over the 1905-S. Digging further in MS64, there are 36 1905-Os and 63+1 1905-Ss which is why the 1905-S appears more plentiful. And by the way, there are 9 1905-Os in MS66 with CACs and 4 1905-Ss
I'd handpick some nice looking Quarter and half eagles in the 64-5 range as I think that these are a good value at present prices. I'd also consider the commemorative gold dollars in the same grade range. These used to be $3000-$5000 coins (the commems) and can be had for under $1000 and for small multiples above XF-AU prices. These are low mintage and will always be collected.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
@DisneyFan said:
An example, the 1905-O with a MS66 population of 21+6 and valued at $3,250 has been overvalued for a long time when compared to the 1905-S with a MS66 population of 9+4 and valued at $$1,650. Sure enough, it went down another $250 since the last price guide.
Needless to say, I won't be buying a 1905-O any time soon.
Greysheet is $1800 and $1200.
I'm not sure looking at only the 66 population is the way to go. The risk certified population is 380 for the S and 314 for the O. So at least some of what is driving the price of the S is that it is scarcer overall.
So theoretically the 1905-O wholesales at $1,800 and "retails" at $3,000 while the 1905-S wholesales at $1,200 and "retails" at $1,650. The former has a 88% markup and the later 38%. Again, this tells you the 1905-O is overvalued. That 38% markup is not insignificant either. Dealers will justify the 38% markup because they say Barbers are slow sellers; but, where are the MS coins?
The desirable range for mint state Barbers is MS64 - MS67. There are 92 1905-Os in that range and 102 1905-Ss - a difference of ten coins. That should not justify a 82% premium for the 1905-O over the 1905-S. Digging further in MS64, there are 36 1905-Os and 63+1 1905-Ss which is why the 1905-S appears more plentiful. And by the way, there are 9 1905-Os in MS66 with CACs and 4 1905-Ss
I'm a firm believer that the market is what the market is. But that said, even if the values are askew, as you suggest, how do you know the S isn't undervalued as opposed to the O being overvalued?
Greysheet ask is also lower. One can't mix price guides. The bid/ask is 1200/1500 for the S and 1800/2250 for the O.
I kind of think they are both correctly priced based on current supply/ demand. Too big and too mature a market for it to be any other way. Future demand? Who knows. The price of everything could soar or crash or stay the same.
@DMWJR said:
When you say classic, I’m thinking pre 1834
My first thought was 34-39.
I knew what he meant, as far as pre ‘33 gold, but I like the idea of classic (head) coinage.
I’d never given gold coins much thought, but a few years ago while perusing my dealer friend’s raw stock boxes, I came across these. The prices at time were quite reasonable, so I thought, at ~$500 ea, I was basically paying comparable money for decent middle date large cents. Here you had the history, relative scarcity, and made of gold to boot.
I put them away, then decided to get them slabbed as part of a larger submission last year.
So theoretically the 1905-O wholesales at $1,800 and "retails" at $3,000 while the 1905-S wholesales at $1,200 and "retails" at $1,650. The former has a 88% markup and the later 38%. Again, this tells you the 1905-O is overvalued. That 38% markup is not insignificant either. Dealers will justify the 38% markup because they say Barbers are slow sellers; but, where are the MS coins?
The desirable range for mint state Barbers is MS64 - MS67. There are 92 1905-Os in that range and 102 1905-Ss - a difference of ten coins. That should not justify a 82% premium for the 1905-O over the 1905-S. Digging further in MS64, there are 36 1905-Os and 63+1 1905-Ss which is why the 1905-S appears more plentiful. And by the way, there are 9 1905-Os in MS66 with CACs and 4 1905-Ss
Greysheet ask is also lower. One can't mix price guides. The bid/ask is 1200/1500 for the S and 1800/2250 for the O. So if you want to use the same argument you just did, the premium is 33% for the S and only 25% for the O making the S overvalued???? [I really don't think the bid/ask spreads tells you that, btw.]
I kind of think they are both correctly priced based on current supply/ demand. Too big and too mature a market for it to be any other way. Future demand? Who knows. The price of everything could soar or crash or stay the same.
Actually, the Greysheet ask premium for the 1905-S is also 25%.
The market for any series may be mature; but, my point is there are inefficiencies within some series if one looks for them. At the same time I will also admit it may take forever for the inefficiencies to correct themselves.
@Walkerguy21D . I never look at gold either but that was a no brainer. Congrats. Old coins, straight grades, under $500 Seriously? I had no idea. James
@seatedlib3991 said: @Walkerguy21D . I never look at gold either but that was a no brainer. Congrats. Old coins, straight grades, under $500 Seriously? I had no idea. James
Thanks, but they were raw at the time, which was about 4 years ago. So I gambled a bit. Looks like they have moved up in the past couple years.
@Walkerguy21D . yes, I caught they were raw, I just meant you were able to find classic gold coins that were also able to be straight grade slabbed. Honestly, the original poster wants to know what to look for. I would caution him to buy coins all ready slabbed but those are the coins "I" would buy if it were me. James
So theoretically the 1905-O wholesales at $1,800 and "retails" at $3,000 while the 1905-S wholesales at $1,200 and "retails" at $1,650. The former has a 88% markup and the later 38%. Again, this tells you the 1905-O is overvalued. That 38% markup is not insignificant either. Dealers will justify the 38% markup because they say Barbers are slow sellers; but, where are the MS coins?
The desirable range for mint state Barbers is MS64 - MS67. There are 92 1905-Os in that range and 102 1905-Ss - a difference of ten coins. That should not justify a 82% premium for the 1905-O over the 1905-S. Digging further in MS64, there are 36 1905-Os and 63+1 1905-Ss which is why the 1905-S appears more plentiful. And by the way, there are 9 1905-Os in MS66 with CACs and 4 1905-Ss
Greysheet ask is also lower. One can't mix price guides. The bid/ask is 1200/1500 for the S and 1800/2250 for the O. So if you want to use the same argument you just did, the premium is 33% for the S and only 25% for the O making the S overvalued???? [I really don't think the bid/ask spreads tells you that, btw.]
I kind of think they are both correctly priced based on current supply/ demand. Too big and too mature a market for it to be any other way. Future demand? Who knows. The price of everything could soar or crash or stay the same.
Actually, the Greysheet ask premium for the 1905-S is also 25%.
The market for any series may be mature; but, my point is there are inefficiencies within some series if one looks for them. At the same time I will also admit it may take forever for the inefficiencies to correct themselves.
This was less than half of the $5k but I wanted a gold coin in my collection, which is mostly CC Morgans and paper. In my tradition of buying high, I also have a 1 oz Platinum Platypus and a 1 oz bar of Palladium, so I have a bit of all major PM's.
I wouldn't recommend buying gold coins right now. Not only is gold at an all time high, I have a feeling the price will come down in 6 - 8 months. The U.S. Dollar is not strong right now and that's why gold is so high.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
@Mizzou said:
I wouldn't recommend buying gold coins right now. Not only is gold at an all time high, I have a feeling the price will come down in 6 - 8 months. The U.S. Dollar is not strong right now and that's why gold is so high.
Really?
USD vs Euro 10 year
USD vs English Pound 10 year
USD to Japan Yen 10 year
USD to China Yuan 10 year
USD to India Rupee 10 year
USD to Russia Rouble 10 year
I would recommend not taking financial advice from strangers on the internet.
EDIT: There are a number of factors at play but it appears that the primary drivers are the forecast for lower interest rates and the inflation that has occurred over the last several years.
These were around $5k each in 2021. Seated quarters and Barber quarters are my main sets but I've always thought a little rare/choice gold is good to for a hedge.
N53
P58+ CAC
P66 CAC
It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
@Mizzou said:
I wouldn't recommend buying gold coins right now. Not only is gold at an all time high, I have a feeling the price will come down in 6 - 8 months. The U.S. Dollar is not strong right now and that's why gold is so high.
Really?
USD vs Euro 10 year
USD vs English Pound 10 year
USD to Japan Yen 10 year
USD to China Yuan 10 year
USD to India Rupee 10 year
USD to Russia Rouble 10 year
I would recommend not taking financial advice from strangers on the internet.
EDIT: There are a number of factors at play but it appears that the primary drivers are the forecast for lower interest rates and the inflation that has occurred over the last several years.
If you look at your own charts, you'll notice that the dollar has fallen off over the last two years...
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
@Mizzou said:
I wouldn't recommend buying gold coins right now. Not only is gold at an all time high, I have a feeling the price will come down in 6 - 8 months. The U.S. Dollar is not strong right now and that's why gold is so high.
Really?
USD vs Euro 10 year
USD vs English Pound 10 year
USD to Japan Yen 10 year
USD to China Yuan 10 year
USD to India Rupee 10 year
USD to Russia Rouble 10 year
I would recommend not taking financial advice from strangers on the internet.
EDIT: There are a number of factors at play but it appears that the primary drivers are the forecast for lower interest rates and the inflation that has occurred over the last several years.
If you look at your own charts, you'll notice that the dollar has fallen off over the last two years...
That is an incorrect blanket statement. But if you feel like anchoring to the high point, I guess we should talk about silver prices.
@lermish
Let's stop acting like children going back and forth. Do me a favor and mark your calendar eight months from today, I guarantee the price of gold will be lower. I'll leave it at that.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
@Mizzou said: @lermish
Let's stop acting like children going back and forth. Do me a favor and mark your calendar eight months from today, I guarantee the price of gold will be lower. I'll leave it at that.
I'm not going back and forth like a child, you are!
In all seriousness, you are making enormous economic and market related statements that are factually incorrect. Unless you say otherwise, my guess is that this is coming from your gut and that you're not a financial professional. I am a financial professional. People may read your incorrect statements or future prognostications and make poor or uninformed decisions. So when you make a statement of "fact", I want the unaware to realize that your confidence is based on absolutely nothing other than your own confidence.
That being said, your guarantee is worth absolutely zero unless you put something behind it.
I would buy 7 MS65 $2.50 Liberty Gold...as low as $680 each..from Great Collections auctions (i bought one 2 weeks ago)...price has been dropping as gold goes up...little interest in the old gold....seems like everyone wants Costco Gold....wait for the shock when they go to sell.....ebay wants 13.25% selling commission and a dealers not paying spot for those! Buy whats out of flavor and you see an good increase in these in coming years....i try to avoid the ones with black spots.....
Combo of nice slabbed pieces fairly close to melt AU and above. Only if could buy them right lol - Would offer 5-10 pct behind CDN Bid in buying. I like bulk deals of coins that are affordable to most coming in bourse room. They are fun to stack and move quickly. One moved recently was a nice PCGS AU55 $10 Lib.
Comments
1911 strong d
1911 strong d
It's important not to confuse apples with oranges. Coins within a series and coins in different series.
One only needs to look at the PCGS Barber Dime Price Guide to see coins within a series do go up and down in value.
An example, the 1905-O with a MS66 population of 21+6 and valued at $3,250 has been overvalued for a long time when compared to the 1905-S with a MS66 population of 9+4 and valued at $$1,650. Sure enough, it went down another $250 since the last price guide.
Needless to say, I won't be buying a 1905-O any time soon.
A nice PO01.FR02 CC $20 gold
Lafayette Grading Set
I would try to get a Carson city double eagle if I had $5000
1842, 1844 or 1867 $2.50 with CAC approval. In my experience assembling the cash is much easier than finding the coins.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Greysheet is $1800 and $1200.
I'm not sure looking at only the 66 population is the way to go. The entirr certified population is 380 for the S and 314 for the O. So at least some of what is driving the price of the S is that it is scarcer overall.
I'm actually looking for the right Morgan proof in that price range. Not in a hurry like I used to be. I've learned good deals can be had if you can be patient. I've buried myself so many times because I wasn't patient. To me $5k is alot of money. I would hate to spend it on a $4k proof.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo
>
I first read this and said ‘no way!’ But yeah, some of the more common Carson’s, around VF35 or lower could be had for around 5k.
Nice idea.👍
So theoretically the 1905-O wholesales at $1,800 and "retails" at $3,000 while the 1905-S wholesales at $1,200 and "retails" at $1,650. The former has a 88% markup and the later 38%. Again, this tells you the 1905-O is overvalued. That 38% markup is not insignificant either. Dealers will justify the 38% markup because they say Barbers are slow sellers; but, where are the MS coins?
The desirable range for mint state Barbers is MS64 - MS67. There are 92 1905-Os in that range and 102 1905-Ss - a difference of ten coins. That should not justify a 82% premium for the 1905-O over the 1905-S. Digging further in MS64, there are 36 1905-Os and 63+1 1905-Ss which is why the 1905-S appears more plentiful. And by the way, there are 9 1905-Os in MS66 with CACs and 4 1905-Ss
I'd handpick some nice looking Quarter and half eagles in the 64-5 range as I think that these are a good value at present prices. I'd also consider the commemorative gold dollars in the same grade range. These used to be $3000-$5000 coins (the commems) and can be had for under $1000 and for small multiples above XF-AU prices. These are low mintage and will always be collected.
I'm a firm believer that the market is what the market is. But that said, even if the values are askew, as you suggest, how do you know the S isn't undervalued as opposed to the O being overvalued?
Greysheet ask is also lower. One can't mix price guides. The bid/ask is 1200/1500 for the S and 1800/2250 for the O.
I kind of think they are both correctly priced based on current supply/ demand. Too big and too mature a market for it to be any other way. Future demand? Who knows. The price of everything could soar or crash or stay the same.
I knew what he meant, as far as pre ‘33 gold, but I like the idea of classic (head) coinage.
I’d never given gold coins much thought, but a few years ago while perusing my dealer friend’s raw stock boxes, I came across these. The prices at time were quite reasonable, so I thought, at ~$500 ea, I was basically paying comparable money for decent middle date large cents. Here you had the history, relative scarcity, and made of gold to boot.
I put them away, then decided to get them slabbed as part of a larger submission last year.
Actually, the Greysheet ask premium for the 1905-S is also 25%.
The market for any series may be mature; but, my point is there are inefficiencies within some series if one looks for them. At the same time I will also admit it may take forever for the inefficiencies to correct themselves.
@Walkerguy21D . I never look at gold either but that was a no brainer. Congrats. Old coins, straight grades, under $500 Seriously? I had no idea. James
So we tell everyone and wipe out arbitrage?
Um, no but I will say there are some great buys out there for under 5K. For sure if the price of gold holds, now $2500.
Thanks, but they were raw at the time, which was about 4 years ago. So I gambled a bit. Looks like they have moved up in the past couple years.
I would have gambled on those coins, at that price all day!
Nice pickup!👍
@Walkerguy21D . yes, I caught they were raw, I just meant you were able to find classic gold coins that were also able to be straight grade slabbed. Honestly, the original poster wants to know what to look for. I would caution him to buy coins all ready slabbed but those are the coins "I" would buy if it were me. James
Fair point. Corrected.
Any combination of crappy bullion coins for $5K.
This was less than half of the $5k but I wanted a gold coin in my collection, which is mostly CC Morgans and paper. In my tradition of buying high, I also have a 1 oz Platinum Platypus and a 1 oz bar of Palladium, so I have a bit of all major PM's.
I wouldn't recommend buying gold coins right now. Not only is gold at an all time high, I have a feeling the price will come down in 6 - 8 months. The U.S. Dollar is not strong right now and that's why gold is so high.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
Really?
USD vs Euro 10 year
USD vs English Pound 10 year
USD to Japan Yen 10 year
USD to China Yuan 10 year
USD to India Rupee 10 year
USD to Russia Rouble 10 year
I would recommend not taking financial advice from strangers on the internet.
EDIT: There are a number of factors at play but it appears that the primary drivers are the forecast for lower interest rates and the inflation that has occurred over the last several years.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
These were around $5k each in 2021. Seated quarters and Barber quarters are my main sets but I've always thought a little rare/choice gold is good to for a hedge.
N53
P58+ CAC
P66 CAC
What are the Russians thinking???
I have many thoughts and I think most people do, I'm going to try not to get banned.
So I would buy an original looking F or VF 1849 Moffat $5, like this one:
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
If you look at your own charts, you'll notice that the dollar has fallen off over the last two years...
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
That is an incorrect blanket statement. But if you feel like anchoring to the high point, I guess we should talk about silver prices.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
@lermish
Let's stop acting like children going back and forth. Do me a favor and mark your calendar eight months from today, I guarantee the price of gold will be lower. I'll leave it at that.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
I'm not going back and forth like a child, you are!
In all seriousness, you are making enormous economic and market related statements that are factually incorrect. Unless you say otherwise, my guess is that this is coming from your gut and that you're not a financial professional. I am a financial professional. People may read your incorrect statements or future prognostications and make poor or uninformed decisions. So when you make a statement of "fact", I want the unaware to realize that your confidence is based on absolutely nothing other than your own confidence.
That being said, your guarantee is worth absolutely zero unless you put something behind it.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I would buy 7 MS65 $2.50 Liberty Gold...as low as $680 each..from Great Collections auctions (i bought one 2 weeks ago)...price has been dropping as gold goes up...little interest in the old gold....seems like everyone wants Costco Gold....wait for the shock when they go to sell.....ebay wants 13.25% selling commission and a dealers not paying spot for those! Buy whats out of flavor and you see an good increase in these in coming years....i try to avoid the ones with black spots.....
Combo of nice slabbed pieces fairly close to melt AU and above. Only if could buy them right lol - Would offer 5-10 pct behind CDN Bid in buying. I like bulk deals of coins that are affordable to most coming in bourse room. They are fun to stack and move quickly. One moved recently was a nice PCGS AU55 $10 Lib.