Here is my latest purchase, a silver USPS 2-cent piece with a little bit of toning
Goldminers
Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
It is edge numbered and stamped .999 F. S. and was issued as part of the many US bicentennial celebrations. WDA initials on the obverse. I would like to know more about it.
5
Comments
Well it's not a coin, Appears to have gotten wet at some point. Maybe part of a FM 1977 set of historic tokens. Good luck
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Nice. Similar to this item on the bay. 393836523738
What is a USPS 2- cent piece?
Well that gives the name. Wayne D. Ashford. Below indicates the mintage. Not sure what the original cost was, however.
Seems that Ashford designed multiple items. Reference
Per this reference, he designed 12 USPS medallions that commemorated significant events in postal history.
Numista lists a couple of his "bicentennial issue" items, but I do not see your specific medallion.
FWIW, pricing and options on medallions #1-3 can be found here. See the image under the "comments" section.
From the links @MetroD and @GoldenEgg provided and summarized below, this is #12 of 12 different medal designs struck at the US Mint, and these were sold in Post Offices on behalf of the USPS, (United States Postal Service).
Mint: United States Mint of Philadelphia, United States (1792-date) edited to state Mint is unknown
Designer: Wayne D. Ashford
Comments:
James C. Curtis was a postmaster in Memphis, Tennessee. In the early 1970's he commissioned the production of a set of twelve medallions commemorating major events in postal history. This was done in order to promote collecting and generate revenue. Apart from the first medallion which was sterling, each of the medallions were produced in three types of metals, .999 Fine Silver, Nickel-Silver, and Bronze. The US Mint struck the medallions on behalf of the Post Office. The 1 Oz silver rounds were produced with a proof like finish in limited quantities and each one was serial numbered on the edge.
A set of these medallions is on display in the postal library in the Postal Headquarters, Washington DC.
Thanks for finding this information. I have not seen a complete set of these in silver for sale. Since some were .999 silver and struck before the big silver price increase in 1980, I suspect many of them were melted.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I don’t believe that these medals were struck at the United States Mint in Philly. I think additional research needs to be done with regard to where they were minted.
I think it was the Franklin Mint.
They have a Franklin Mint look for sure.
These links both state US Mint. I do not know this information is 100% fact, I am only relying on info from these two searches. If you have other documentation please provide it, and not any additional speculation. I do want to know the real history. Thanks.
https://agroundworld.com/pshop/usps-silver-rounds-196
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia389599.html
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
What does it say on that ribbon below the stamp?
What does it say below that ribbon?
The lettering style is not that of Franklin Mint pieces. Also, they usually used Sterling SIlver AND they were not bashful about putting their mint mark on their work.
The early Coin World Almanacs listed a lot of Bicentennial medals for historical purposes. For a 1977 pieces I would suggest that you look through a third edition.
The ribbon says, " Turning Point of the War" The designer initials are to the right of it, "WDA". Below the ribbon says, " In God We Trust".
Thanks, maybe someone here has the 3rd Edition Almanac that you speak of.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Proof Franklin Mint medals tend to have a unique frosty appearance that I am not seeing on this medal (or other versions of it where the frost is not hidden by the toning). FM frost is usually very satiny and tends to “glow” under the light. Also, FM products don’t tend to develop splotch toning like this.
After doing some more digging, it looks like Ashford worked with Wendell’s of Minneapolis on multiple projects, and it would seem likely that he worked with them in this instance too.
The appearance of the bronze and copper nickel versions of these Bicentennial stamp medals certainly appears to be their work.
Every one of these medals in Numista below state the US Mint in Philadelphia struck them on behalf of the Post Office, where they were sold. Edited to add that after review Numista has revised their info to mint unknown.
Yes, Ashford did other medals/medallions that were done by other companies like Pegasus Medallions who did his Elvis Presley commemorative, and maybe Wendell's? for some other designs, but they were not sold at the US Post Office outlets. I still have not found any information yet that indicates the Numista is wrong regarding these postal medallions that were commissioned by James Curtis.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?ct=exonumia&se=U.S.+Postal+History+Medals&e=etats-unis
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The Swoger book should list this if it is indeed a U.S. Mint product:
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/periodical/15663
Anybody have a copy?
BTW, I also thought this silver medal was like many Franklin Mint products, but they often would have a small FM hallmark on the edge.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
FWIW, here is a recent eBay listing for several of these medals in an USPS album (i.e., postal history (12) + bicentennial issue (??)).
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/266669162040
I thought that the "postique" aspect was interesting.
Source: the eBAy listing cited above.
The Numista wording mirrored the 'silver 'round the world' verbiage. I am GUESSING that 'silver 'round the world' was the source. So, I e-mailed 'silver 'round the world', and invited them to join this discussion. Hopefully, they will respond.
Edited to add the image.
.
The obituary text you provided specifically mentioned the Postiques. See below:
"In 1970's Mr. Ashford began designing and marketing one ounce, .999 fine silver medallions, and produced a series of historical medallions for the U.S. Postal Service consisting of two (sic 12?) medallions, each one commemorating a specific historical event in the U.S. Post Office. These medallions sold in the Post Office and Postiques in the United States. A set of these medallions is on display in the postal library in the Postal Headquarters, Washington DC and on display in the Library of the University of Virginia."
The Jimmy Carter medal in that eBay set is from the Franklin Mint. Again, not sure where the others were struck.
Thanks for the above eBay link, but I had already purchased that set
. It does have this 1977 medal in it, and it is supposed to have more documentation which I should receive in a week or so.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
In an earlier post, I mentioned that I had e-mailed 'Silver 'Round the World' about their webpage, which stated that the Mint had produced these medallions. They just responded. With their permission, I am reposting the reply in italic.
Thanks for reaching out. I looked through my old research on the USPS Silver rounds and have essentially the same information as has been posted on the thread (old newspaper articles and the Ashford obituary). My source for the mint was the Numista website. I conducted the research several years ago and even though I had no explicit documentation citing the US Mint, Numista's reference seemed reasonable due to both the USPS and US Mint being government "agencies." In light of the questions and additional information presented on the thread, it does appear that the US Mint probably did not mint these products. Consequently, I'll be rewriting the synopsis and removing the reference to the US Mint. One of my goals for Silver 'Round the World is to accurately preserve some of the history of vintage silver rounds.
This leaves us with the question of who might have minted it. The mint was obviously in existence during the early 1970s. Unlike today, there weren't very many "small" mints producing collectible rounds. Medallic Art Company (MACO) dealt mostly with high-quality medallions. Franklin Mint is a possibility and was definitely one of the large players. There were several other mints similar to Franklin Mint during that time. Danbury Mint, Hamilton Mint, The Lincoln Mint, and The International Mint all produced sets similar to Franklin Mint and were around in the early 1970s. For some reason, this just doesn't "feel" like a Franklin Mint product because they dealt mostly with sterling and many of their rounds were "odd" weights. Perhaps at some point in the future we will have a definitive answer on this set. Regardless, I'm glad this thread was brought to my attention.
Silver 'Round the World
I feel vindicated. Lol. While this issue may not have specifically been Franklin Mint, they did issue USPS medals in the 1970s which speed up in 1stv day covers. I think most of these products, whichever Mint actually issued them, came from the (private) Mint soliciting USPS and not the other way around.
Anyway, thank you for the research!
By the way, while the Franklin Mint did do mostly Sterling, they also did use 0.999 on occasion. The bigger argument against the Franklin Mintb is the lack of a hallmark on the edge and, perhaps, the aforementioned font difference.
@MetroD,
Thanks for the additional information. I think the real source of the uncertainty was the Numista website. They are the ones who stated these were US Mint products. I wonder if they have any documentation to support their claim.
I just received the Postique album. There are plenty of other medals in the album, some I can say for sure are from the Franklin Mint, others are still from an unknown mint. None of the paper documentation actually states where they were minted.
Congress did authorize the US Mint to strike medals commemorating the Bicentennial from 1972 to 1976, including several that were also included in Postal First Day covers with the stamps as shown in my photo below. These American Revolution medals were struck at the US Mint in .925 silver or bronze. Unfortunately, a lot of the US Mint documentation from the 1970's has been lost.
Many other bicentennial medals were struck by private mints at the time like mentioned by "silver round the world", including Heraldic Art commemorative so-called half dollars, etc.
Since these are .999 with edge numbering and lettering and cover more topics than were officially authorized by Congress, I do not believe they were US Mint medals.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
A series this large very likely would have been mentioned in the Mint Director's annual report if produced by the USMint. Not mentioned.
Thanks to @MetroD for his great work contacting the sources of the information on both the Numista and silver round the world websites.
Both sites have now revised their website info that incorrectly referenced the US Mint, to now say "mint unknown". I edited my posts above to do the same so that the records are more accurate.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Earlier in this thread, I posted two links to external sources (i.e., Numista, and 'Silver 'Round the World'). Both references, at the time of posting, stated that the U.S. Mint had struck the 'postal history medals'.
Multiple forum members questioned whether the U.S. Mint had actually struck these medals. So, I contacted both sources, and asked them to confirm this information. Both sources have updated their websites as a result of this contact.
Here is an example of the updated information from the Numista website. While they have not deleted the U.S. Mint information, they have added a disclaimer.
Source: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia389599.html
And here is the updated information from 'Silver 'Round the World'. They now indicate that the manufacturer is "unknown".
Source: https://agroundworld.com/pshop/usps-silver-rounds-196
I realize that the objective here was to identify the source of these medals. Unfortunately, this has not happened, at least not yet. Notwithstanding, I would like to acknowledge the posters that participated in this thread. Your skepticism led to the 'disclaiming/correction' of some misinformation. IOW, you helped to make the sparse references that 'cover' this series more accurate for future users.
Very interesting info, and nice medals!