A grumpy old man's observations of National today
mcastaldi
Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭
Two things for context -
1 - I've been to many Nationals, but not for a very long time. I think 2004 or 2005 was the last time I'd gone.
2 - I'm (now) a grumpy old man
- Parking was a completely disorganized disaster. I can't remember when an event handled something so integral so poorly.
- I waited in line for 20 minutes for a restroom. I didn't even think about getting food there.
- OMG there were a TON of dealers who had ONLY autographs. I never remember so many dealers where everything they had had an autograph on it.
- I don't remember any of the Chicago Nationals being this crowded.
- Prices marked were, with very few exceptions, totally out of touch with the actual market. Most of what I saw was overpriced to the tune of a half-grade to a full grade.
- The dealers who did bring vintage commons generally brought them in binders rather than sleeved. In an of itself, that's not a problem. But probably of 2/3 of the dealers who brought albums had more than one card per pocket. Those made things easy because I didn't need to look any further.
- Do you remember the scene in the movie "Casino" where they catch the cheaters & come up behind the guy with the cattle prod? I wanted to do that to every knuckle-dragger who was wearing a backpack that stuck out 18" or more. I'd have been busy ALL DAY. See also: it was too crowded.
- If you were looking for nice 70s stuff you were pretty much out of luck. If you just wanted something that allowed you to check of a box on your checklist, you were fine. But anything nice - raw or graded - was VERY tough to find.
- Topps is completely out of ideas with respect to card design. I used to LOVE the concept of Topps Heritage. Release a set of current players with retro designs. But. . .when I see things like modern soccer cards using the 59T baseball design, it tells me your company is creatively bankrupt.
NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!
So full of action, my name should be a verb.
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Comments
I went to the National last year. Will probably be my last. Have been to 4 in the past.
100+° in the convention center (or so it seemed), turn on the f#$#@ing air conditioning or at least have fans to keep the (hot) air moving.
Crowded, and yes the backpacks and carts people had were very annoying.
It was a bit warm but not horrible. That said, it was only low 80s in Cleveland today. Of it had been in the 90s, who knows.
And it wasn’t just the protruding backpacks. It seemed the further they stuck out, the less spacial awareness the owner had.
Long time ago, it was paradise.
Enjoy the go.
I remember the days when the old timers would walk around with binders, shoeboxes and grocery bags.
They would always hit people on the sides of their legs or in my back. Times haven’t changed at shows, now it’s everyone.
Another thing I saw that was interesting. . .
I saw what seemed to be a ton of kids, probabaly aged 12-15, carrying around these Haliburton-style lockable cases. Like they had a stack of graded 52 Mantles in them or something.
I live about 10 miles from the IX Center and was so looking forward to this show. Friday morning I could not even get close to the building because of the backed up traffic so I went home and came back at 1 pm. Even then still super crowded and I had to park in the far corners of the back overflow low. Amazed that we had to walk around the whole building to get into the entrance. Thats a big ass building and takes about 15 minutes. Never seen that for any kind of event at the IX Center before. Would it have been a major cost to have even a small shuttle circling the building? Usually love the Cleveland shows but now I am happy it is going back to Chicago next year. FYI there is a whole unused section of that building. My guess is they could have expanded the floor space.
Used to love the IX center location with the high ceilings, Ferris wheel, food trucks going down the entire right hand side with probably 50-100 cafeteria style tables with tons of seating. Aisles were wide and plenty of space to operate.
*.food lines and restrooms were a joke. Completely unprepared.
@KendallCat
Most of the stuff I was interested in was priced somewhere between a half grade and full grade too high. This is certainly not unusual and I guess that they want you to negotiate. But if the dealer is starting from a point that far from reality, what the dealer thinks is fair and what I think is fair will be too far apart. Not always, but enough so to where it’s not worth asking them.
Nope…. just $100k Charizards!
Live long, and prosper.
A & BC was the UK version of Topps. What you're seeing is like the soccer version of Topps Heritage for baseball.
The two divisions have shared designs for quite a while.
1958 A & BC Footballers is based on 1956 Topps football
1959 A & BC Footballers is based on 1958 Topps baseball
1960 A & BC Footballers is based on 1959 Topps baseball
1962 A & BC Footballers is based on 1961 Topps football
1963 A & BC Footballers is based on 1962 Topps baseball
1964 A & BC Footballers is based on 1963 Topps football
1969 A & BC Footballers is based on 1968 Topps football
1970 A & BC Footballers is based on 1967 Topps baseball
1971 A & BC Footballers is based on 1964 Topps baseball
1972 A & BC Footballers is a combination of 1967 Topps baseball & 1972 Topps football
1976 A & BC Footballers is based on 1975 Topps baseball
1977 A & BC Footballers is based on 1976 Topps baseball
1978 A & BC Footballers is based on 1977 Topps football
Similarly, their Argentina product division:
1965 Crack Golazo Figuritas is based on 1960 Topps football
1970 Topps football is based on 1966 Crack Golazo Figuritas
The Australian branch of their corporation, Scanlens, used just about all` the same designs for VFL / AFL as they did for American Topps football and Topps hockey throughout the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.
Topps hockey has some of the same designs that they used for Topps football and baseball.
Point being, I understand being unimpressed with a lack of unique design from one sport to another. However, it is certainly nothing new. They've been doing it all along, pretty much every year, since the 1950s.
Just got here…my fourth national in a row with my son and I’ll never return to this location. Bad setup. Walked around the entire building after parking and then most of the way around the other side to wait in a general admission line almost half a mile long.
I agree very much with the original post. Even wondered if it was the person I was walking around there with and mutually complaining to. Similar words used. Made me feel kind of old to see it that way.
A younger me probably accepts it but horrible parking in one area (did not realize there was another lot, noone in the yellow vest guiding away from a full lot) long lines to the restrooms overcrowdedness, inability to even see some tables cause 7 people are resting their little suitcases on the table, not very appealing. And that was Thursday and Friday. Felt Saturday and Sunday would be close to unimaginable how out of control it could be. Had a ticket but rolled early Saturday without going.
I still enjoyed myself in certain ways. Maybe just less while in the Exposition Center. Its nicer to look back on. Was nice to get some 2024 Topps Chrome get out and enjoy opening it. Cool to see the young folks getting back into the hobby and enthusiastic about it the way I remember being and have conversations with them. Then wonder how they have a similar budget and cards that I have. 😄
The selection of cards surprisingly did not wow me as it usually had. It was not a bad experience but I used to take so much pleasure in these and missed the mark in a big way this time. Unfortunately think this is my last one. Unless I hear they do things that change the experience. Like limiting the crowd, selling a # tickets per day like a concert or sporting event which I doubt would ever happen. I get it. They want to make money and not disappoint people who made the trip and didn't buy a ticket. Dont want to Clark Griswold
Vacation anybody. Which is interesting because Chevy Chase was inside.
I see everyone is very negative.
To me here were the positives:
1) A/C pretty much worked.
2) Set-Up way more logical than Chicago. Could actually find my way back to tables.
3) Felt the same as last year as far as crowds - yes there are lines and yes there is congestion at the beginning and end of the day but they are now getting 100K people for the show. It doesn’t matter where you have it those are issues.
Chicago’s main advantage is the walking distance hotels and bigger show floor. But I don’t think they do any better job.
Suggestions I would have to improve:
Open show at 8:30 for VIP and 9:30 for general. Staggering VIP and General by an hour instead of 30 minutes will help with traffic getting in. Starting the show earlier will make people feel like they can avoid the lines at the beginning and still get a full day in.
Reduce size of corporate footprint and breakers pavilion. Took up way too large a percentage of the floor space. Move breakers pavilion to VIP lounge/trade night area and cut the size of the VIP lounge in half. This would let more tables in.
Allow more people working the tables. This way buying deals can go on without stopping customers from seeing cards.
Require venues to have WiFi that is stable with 20K users. If not possible lease one yourself.
I had a great time at the show.
@brad31
Hard to disagree with anything you said.
I did say it'd been quite a long time since I'd been to a National. So my context is the Stephens Convention Center circa 2004. To be sure, the world is different now.
Definitely agree that more can and should be done to relieve congestion at tables.
Definitely agree that far too much space (IMO) was given to the large corporate entities (Goldin, Heritage, PSA, et al) - although I know those folks help pay a lot of bills. So I think the balance can be better.
And, to be sure, my impressions of the show would almost certainly have been more positive had I walked out with no cash but tons of cards.
The shows at the IX center were always my favorite to attend for those reasons. Having skipped the last two Nationals and not enjoying the last one I went to in Chicago, I was looking forward to heading back to Cleveland this year. I was a little bummed when I decided to cancel my trip, but it sounds like I probably wouldn't have enjoyed the show anyway!
Maybe I'll give Chicago another try next year...
Scott
I quit going to card shows 15 -16 years ago. Stuff is overpriced and so is everything else. I talked to a co- worker at work today who went to the Def Leppard/Journey/ cheap trick concert tuesday night at Indians stadium. He said he paid $60 for parking, and $13 for a beer. Yes i'm done with concerts too. Last one I went to was 2018.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
It's reviews like th> @coolstanley said:
Booooo
That Def Leppard/Journey/Cheap Trick concert also had the Steve Miller Band, and Heart. What an amazing lineup.
In 2024 I have scene Neil Young, Hank Williams Junior, God Smack, Chris Stapleton, and Clint Black! Each one was excellent to amazing. I was singing their songs for days after!
Keep on Rocking in the free world!
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Local or mid-sized regional shows are the way to go.
olb, for me to get a reference what size does the Chantilly VA show qualify as? Large regional show or mid size? TY
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Chantilly is decent. i love the show, but the table prices are the main culprit. And i think that is the key. A winchester va show, which they have at least once per month, where tables are $50, I think might be a better deal. We have local shows and the table is cost $40 and the shows are decent. Better chances of finding 1985 Donruss Nolan Ryan at smaller shows.
To me the table price for the dealers is the key thing. If you are looking for just regular cards the lower the table cost, the more average stuff you will find. Chantilly is pretty good though.