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I got questionable color. Does this look natural 1888 O

I believe this got questionable color due the high grade and beauty of the coin. Why does PCGS do this when this coin clearly has some old textile toning and natural look.
This has not been AT and I’ve had it for years.

What grade would you give it?
Do you think it’s Questionable Color?

Thanks fellow collectors

Comments

  • It’s almost a flawless cheek too!

    Ok thanks for honest opinion. And please if you’re just looking to knock someone or bring them down don’t post, just honest happy collectors.
    God bles

  • Yea there is a cudd at the top

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would send it to NGC or ICG and get it holdered then try to cross it to PCGS later.

    GrandAm :)
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2024 2:30AM

    Welcome to the forum.

    Sorry, but (edited) portions of the color look questionable to me. High quality and attractiveness aren’t reasons that coins ate labeled “questionable color”.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,286 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 13, 2024 3:27PM

    Not sure, I’d think it was NT too if I saw it. But maybe something was done to camouflage that scratch that starts on Liberty’s chin and goes across the cheek and/or the funky black patch on the 888 in the date. Might have strategically darkened the toning in one of those 2 places to camouflage damage. Here’s enlarged images showing the 2 areas I’m referring to. But yeah, if it was in a straight graded holder I wouldn’t be suspicious

    Mr_Spud

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,241 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks original to me, at least based on the pics. Are there signs of cleaning beneath the toning?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From the PCGS images my first reaction was that it would go QC (Questionable Color). YMMV.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As mentioned by another member the dark toning around the date looks off and may have been what caused the QC designation.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As others have opined, I would get your strongest loupe and look closely at the dark toning around the date. Check to see if anything is hiding under there.

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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2024 10:09AM

    Would give it - Unc Details, agree with our hosts - questionable color.

    Overall just dont like it. What’s going on with the cheek - white stuff? Yuck.

    Did you buy this coin raw?

    Coins & Currency
  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks market acceptable.
    The dark area around the date looks terminal-getting close to environmental damage but probably not quite there. I don't think it is something that would cause a QC designation. If it is hiding a scratch or cleaning, then one of those should have been listed as the reason for details.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome aboard. Look. the problem with subjectivity is a loss of objectivity. And fear must play a part in the grader's mind.

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it's natural, and that it should receive a straight grade of 67 or maybe 67+. Surprising it didn't get a straight grade considering the textile pattern from 12 to 2 o'clock on the obverse, but I agree that it was most likely suspected of AT because of the dark spot by the date. If it were me, I would try cracking it out and resubmitting, or trying a different grading service.

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2024 8:59AM

    Absent color .... ( not that I suggest a dip and ruin pretty.....) it looks near gem.

  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Color progression looks off to me

    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • ToreyTorey Posts: 198 ✭✭✭✭

    Look at the pull-away toning under the date and the stars. That form of toning is extremely hard to replicate for coin doctors, if not impossible. I say NT.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The PCGS graders see a lot of "color" Morgan Dollars. They have probably gotten very proficient at spotting artificial toning.
    AT is most likely correct.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2024 4:14PM

    Well what the graders say is like the down marker when the ref indicates the line of scrimmage. What they say talks and everybody else and their bs walks.

    At first got me as being dullish, then obv
    unattractive white spots. Certainly not straight grade lol. Can’t decide what is more terrible about it the obv cheek white spots or mess top rt obv.

    A no go for me any way you slice it. Do you think you could get MS60 bid with a problem coin dealer or would he discount it even more behind that. I would think the latter. How Much below MS 60 MV would it even be tagged for retail sell?

    Coins & Currency
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think the color is artificial, so I wouldn't call it "questionable color".
    However, I suspect that the coin had a larger dark patch around the date, and someone worked on it to lighten some of that area (via localized cleaning).

  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭

    to me its AT. Sorry.

    Easton Collection
  • Yea there is a cudd at the top> @U1chicago said:

    It looks market acceptable.
    The dark area around the date looks terminal-getting close to environmental damage but probably not quite there. I don't think it is something that would cause a QC designation. If it is hiding a scratch or cleaning, then one of those should have been listed as the reason for details.

    @U1chicago said:
    It looks market acceptable.
    The dark area around the date looks terminal-getting close to environmental damage but probably not quite there. I don't think it is something that would cause a QC designation. If it is hiding a scratch or cleaning, then one of those should have been listed as the reason for details.

    @U1chicago said:
    It looks market acceptable.
    The dark area around the date looks terminal-getting close to environmental damage but probably not quite there. I don't think it is something that would cause a QC designation. If it is hiding a scratch or cleaning, then one of those should have been listed as the reason for details.

    @U1chicago said:
    It looks market acceptable.
    The dark area around the date looks terminal-getting close to environmental damage but probably not quite there. I don't think it is something that would cause a QC designation. If it is hiding a scratch or cleaning, then one of those should have been listed as the reason for details.

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Would give it - Unc Details, agree with our hosts - questionable color.

    Overall just dont like it. What’s going on with the cheek - white stuff? Yuck.

    Did you buy this coin raw?

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Absent color .... ( not that I suggest a dip and ruin pretty.....) it looks near gem.

  • Yes I sent it to Pcgs. They said environmental damage on the date. I sent to NGC to conserve the coin. Sent back a ms62. I was very shocked since cheek is almost flawless other than the tiny scratch. Sent to PCGS, questionable color. Strike, luster are all very good. I’m going to send to NGC again to look at. You all are very good with coins, 🎩 is off to you:
    It’s natural, small textile toning it hard to replicate and would take years if possible at all.
    I’ll update you, but at least ms66 or better from others I’ve seen.

    I think the unattractive toning on the cheek looks like damage, but is not and at quick glance (they look at coins for 5-10 seconds each) they assumed damage but it’s not. Just the way it toned over decades, and to be honest it toned a bit too long if you ask me.

    If it comes back straight grade, what grade do you all see this coin receiving?

  • @Cougar1978 said:
    Would give it - Unc Details, agree with our hosts - questionable color.

    Overall just dont like it. What’s going on with the cheek - white stuff? Yuck.

    Did you buy this coin raw?

    Yea I did. This will be the 3rd submission

  • @Cougar1978 said:
    Well what the graders say is like the down marker when the ref indicates the line of scrimmage. What they say talks and everybody else and their bs walks.

    At first got me as being dullish, then obv
    unattractive white spots. Certainly not straight grade lol. Can’t decide what is more terrible about it the obv cheek white spots or mess top rt obv.

    A no go for me any way you slice it. Do you think you could get MS60 bid with a problem coin dealer or would he discount it even more behind that. I would think the latter. How Much below MS 60 MV would it even be tagged for retail sell?

    It’s already received a straight grade from NGC. This is not a problem coin, I guess you would need to hold it to make a better judgment. Pictures are hard

  • Best photos I could get without the cheek toning looking like damage, because it’s not. Gonna try pcgs one more time then anacs maybe before NGC. Anacs is the most conservative grading service so if they give it a high grade I’ll be good (yes they are not first in market, but harsh on grades)

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 914 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Anacs is the most conservative grading service", where the heck did you get that from?

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think @dcarr is correct. It looks like someone played around with the color and this sort of "tipped them off".
    If it was in an NGC MS62 that's where it should have stayed.
    I do like the eye appeal of the coin overall myself.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the Trueview pictures better than the second set. Based on the Trueview, I would have said natural but in the 2nd set the coin doesn't look quite right overall.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover said:
    "Anacs is the most conservative grading service", where the heck did you get that from?

    Their current iteration is pretty conservative

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Their> @Scomer412 said:

    Best photos I could get without the cheek toning looking like damage, because it’s not. Gonna try pcgs one more time then anacs maybe before NGC. Anacs is the most conservative grading service so if they give it a high grade I’ll be good (yes they are not first in market, but harsh on grades)

    It's your money, but you're just throwing good money after bad.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2024 6:08AM

    I would have fallen for it but wouldn’t have paid big premium raw. If I saw the edge and it was bright untoned I wouldn’t have gone near it unless base price.

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