1832 Capped Bust Half Dime Attribution help please

jesbroken

I attribute this as an Obverse Die 5. Just starting my attributions with half dimes. So help me out. What do you think the obverse attribution would be?
Jim

Bikergeek

I think you have an LM-3 there, which is Obverse 3, Reverse Q. Below is my set piece. I generally look at the reverse first, as it is usually more definitive; then I attribute the obverse. Note the missing third stroke of the M in AMERICA. That gets you to reverse Q and reverse Z and discards the rest. Since reverse Z has a bad base of the left leg of M in AMERICA (and your coin doesn't) and since reverse Z has the last A far from the upper arrowhead (again, as yours doesn't) then I exclude Z and that means it's reverse Q. Rev Q does us the courtesy of only being paired with one 1832 obverse, so we have a winner!

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/43541048

jesbroken

I'm sure you are correct, but with the condition of the subject coin, I felt the 8th star pointed more toward the outer downward edge, but again condition creates confusion. I didn't have access to the reverse attribution diagnostics, so I wasn't able to attempt it yet. Hoped I could pickup on obverse die attribution and then try reverse. Thank you for your help, I truly appreciate it.
Jim

yosclimber

Yours can't be Obverse 5, because S8 is not "close to and low on cap".
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/1832-obverse-dies.html

The leading markers for Obverse 3 are not usable on your coin,
because S12 and S13 are worn so flat.
So you cannot rule out Obverse 3.

The above site (by Wes - @UtahCoin ) attributes the Obverse first, but it's better to do the Reverse first like @Bikergeek does,
because the markers are usually much simpler. So you can do it more accurately.
Judging star rotations on the obverse is a lot trickier.
So that is one thing that the above site could have done better.

The Logan-McCloskey book has great charts which show the most important reverse markers for a given date.

You can still check all the reverses.
The page below shows all known reverses for 1832 are M Q R P S T U X Y Z:
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/all-123-die-pairings-pictures-r-factors--more.html
And you can see the leading die markers for those reverses
by clicking through each of the known 1832 obverses:
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/1832-obverse-1-marriages.html
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/1832-obverse-2-marriages.html
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/1832-obverse-3-marriages.html
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/1832-obverse-4-marriages.html
http://www.everythinghalfdimes.com/1832-obverse-5-marriages.html

However, the reverse die markers on the site are very brief.
They do not describe the die state (I assume; don't have my L-M book with me)
which @Bikergeek found with the 3rd stroke of M1 missing.
The plate photos on the site for Reverses Q and Z always show the 3rd stroke of M1 thin but present.
So probably at least one of those plate photos is misattributed.

It's a situation where the website is not as good as the book.
So you are at a bit of a disadvantage, trying to do it all from the website.

jesbroken

Thank you @Bikergeek
Thank you @yosclimber, great information and found the website to be very helpful. Would love to have your pdf file you created in the past. Is it still available? I will attempt to purchase the Federal Half Dime book, one, if I find it and two, if I can afford it.
Thanks.
Jim

Barndog

I have seen the books in the 150-200 range when offered. The Logan-McCloskey book remains the best print material out there for collectors of early half dimes.

Bikergeek

@yosclimber's comments are great here, as usual! @jesbroken, I appreciate your interest and will gladly be of help in future if I can be (feel free to PM). I have my own notes and diagnostics, but haven't published any of those to the world yet (but sometimes think of how/if/when I should).

The LM book is my bible, and my own copy is stained, and dog-eared. It also forces us to interpret. For example, regarding the third slash of M, the book's entry on 1832 LM-3 says: "The third stroke of M was removed due to lapping." This means that, during this coin's striking, there was a full M at first and then that 3rd stroke was removed. So a full M doesn't disprove reverse Q. But the missing third slash is a powerful diagnostic.

The LM book is hard to find and when it does appear, the price is high. Here's a newer book that isn't as in-depth but augments the LM book nicely, and has some good features: https://www.davidkahnrarecoins.com/u-s-half-dimes-1792-1837-variety-identification-guide-by-robert-powers.html

There's also an app that is being developed actively (currently in beta on Apple iOS, and will be ported to Android in the future. It's not my app so I don't have any info on it until its author gives me the green light to brag about it. :-)

Copperindian

Kudos to both:
@Bikergeek
@yosclimber
Each has been tremendously informative in the past with reference links in addition to their own comments. Members like them are what makes this forum so valuable.

yosclimber

Hi Jim,

@jesbroken said:
... Would love to have your pdf file you created in the past. Is it still available?

I have some PDFs for seated half dime die varieties (but not for capped bust).
Is that what you are referring to? They are all available for free download.
https://sites.google.com/view/clintcummins/half-dime-attribution-guide

jesbroken

Sorry, @yosclimber, I had read an old post and remembered it to be for capbust half dimes. My bad. Thanjs for your help.
Jim

jesbroken

Thanks @Bikergeek, you might regret the offer, lol.
Jim

jesbroken

Anyone have a copy of Federal Half Dime, 1829-1837 Logan-McCloskey? Also, I was told there used to be a pdf file available on Internet Archive, but not available any longer. True or not. If so, someone surely has a copy of the pdf file. Would love to have the book. Thank you.
Jim

Cladiator

@jesbroken , I have an extra copy of the half dime bible and have been holding on to it in hopes that I could get it to a half dime enthusiast that didnt' have one. It's yours if you want it, no charge, just PM with your shipping address. Word of caution though, these little baby busties can be incredibly addicting

alaura22

@Cladiator said:
@jesbroken , I have an extra copy of the half dime bible and have been holding on to it in hopes that I could get it to a half dime enthusiast that didnt' have one. It's yours if you want it, no charge, just PM with your shipping address. Word of caution though, these little baby busties can be incredibly addicting

WOW, how nice of you Cladiator, the book will be in great hands
I love happy stories

jesbroken

@Cladiator said:
@jesbroken , I have an extra copy of the half dime bible and have been holding on to it in hopes that I could get it to a half dime enthusiast that didnt' have one. It's yours if you want it, no charge, just PM with your shipping address. Word of caution though, these little baby busties can be incredibly addicting

Unbelieveable. Thank you so much. What a forum, such wonderful and caring members.
Jim

Bikergeek

@Cladiator said:
@jesbroken , I have an extra copy of the half dime bible and have been holding on to it in hopes that I could get it to a half dime enthusiast that didnt' have one. It's yours if you want it, no charge, just PM with your shipping address. Word of caution though, these little baby busties can be incredibly addicting

WOW! Cladiator, I'm agog at your generosity. I have always held you in high esteem - but you just went and ratcheted that up 6 notches!

jesbroken

As I feel 100%.
Jim

jesbroken

Can't wait to get the Bible next week. I've got my whole 9 yr date set and several extras to go thru when it comes. Thank you again @Cladiator. You don't know how excited an old man can get over a book. lol I've for sure id'd a couple of 37's as LM-5's and a 31 I can't match with anything. Has a filled N on the reverse and can only find one LM that has that but nothing else is the same. Wheeee! Good times are coming.
Jim