Token Time - Part 2 (Continued)

tokenpro

The system would not let me post a reply on the original June 24 "Token Time" thread so I've continued it from the end. I have added information that is relevant to the trail of the thread and to understanding some Civil War token basics. From the end:

@291fifth said:
Probably a contemporary "made for collector" token using an actual Flying Eagle cent.

jonathanb said:
There are many known Civil War tokens struck over various undertypes. Not surprisingly, most of the overstrikes have a cent as the host coin. Some are struck on silver dimes. Some of the large ones are struck over silver quarters. Some are even struck on other Civil War tokens.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions that any of those were made for collectors.

"tokenpro adds"

Actually the opposite is true. Virtually all Civil War token overstrikes on coins were made for collectors as were the vast majority of off-metal strikes. Many were struck on demand from remainder dies long after the war ended. More than a few collectors had standing orders with die sinkers to set aside one uncirculated example of each new issue that they struck. The competition to have the “best or biggest” collection resulted in collectors paying die sinkers to strike off-metal and other odd varieties. At times the “back door” token sales may have been higher that the regular stock front door sales. Numismatic auctions during the war regularly had listings of individual CWTs and groups of tokens

Information on struck to order Civil War tokens can be found across many Civil War Token Society (CWTS) publications but the best gathering of information is found in Dave Bowers’ Whitman published “A Guide Book Of Civil War Tokens”. In the historical section before the listings several of the famous collections and collectors are outlined. Thomas Cleneay and James Hughes of Cincinnati “visited the shop of William K. Lanphear regularly and had special items struck to their order”. Edward Groh of NYC “had special strikings in odd combinations and metal struck to his order”. Charles Idell worked with and in competition with Groh ordering many off-metal strikes and having the dies destroyed afterwards. The auction of the famous J.N.T. Levick collection had this note in most of the CWT lots “all struck to order and bright and uncirculated”.

Looking at overstrikes from a different angle, there would have been no financial incentive for a die sinker to use cents for striking tokens. Using a planchet that costs one cent to strike a token that passes for one cent does not make sense. It also makes no sense for the customer who could order tokens with his business card on one side at $8.50 to $9.00 per 1000 or pre-struck Patriotic tokens at about half that price (profit on seigniorage vs. cost above face value). There are very few off-metal CWTs struck for circulation and even fewer, if any, die sinker overstrikes on coins struck for commercial use. CWTs struck over CWTs is a different discussion. CWTs struck over cents as a type are popular but not overly scarce and can be found for sale most anytime with a little effort. Most copper nickel CWTs are struck on planed down Flying Eagle and copper nickel Indian cents often with little or nothing of the undertype remaining. An overstrike with a clear impression of the undertype such as the piece in the OP deserves a premium

Copperindian

This is truly great info - I’m sorry they didn’t allow posting on the original thread (I was the OP). It would have been perfect placed there!

JBK

The other thread is still open - not sure why posting is an issue.

In any case, here is the original thread.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1104925/token-time-answered#latest

P.S. - I just posted to the other thread.

tokenpro

I kept getting the "will be posted pending approval" message for two days with no response forthcoming. I have learned to live without approval so I cast off on my own (plus I think the information is needed for clarification).