Rough Cut PSA 10

PaulMaul

I get the philosophy (partially fueled by OPC) not to downgrade for rough cuts. But is there anyone here who would be happy paying for this card as a PSA 10 and/or having it in their collection?

JoeBanzai

Not me. No card with a rough cut should get a 10.

brad31

Rough cut doesn’t affect grades so that doesn’t bother me. Left/Right centering bothers me more.

Mookie1986

I don't think that I would pay for it as a 10, but I have always liked rough cut cards for some reason.

PaulMaul

@brad31 said:
Rough cut doesn’t affect grades so that doesn’t bother me. Left/Right centering bothers me more.

It’s good that everyone has their own preferences. The centering of the card doesn’t bother me at all, but I find a rough cut this severe ugly as hell.

PaulMaul

@brad31 said:
Rough cut doesn’t affect grades….

I’m curious…to what extreme does this go? If the cutting blade was so dull that it tore a chunk of the card surface off, would that not affect the grade?

brad31

While not a 10 this is one of my favorite cards in my collection. The color pops and I like the rough cut.

PaulMaul

@brad31

The Kaline cut is nowhere near as severe and not ugly at all. It should be an esthetic judgment call.

brad31

My understanding (and someone will correct me if I am wrong) OPC and early Topps used wires instead of blades to cut stacks of sheets. Depending on where the sheet was on the stack the wires caused the rough cuts.

It goes pretty far on rough cuts not affecting grades. This Carlton is an example:

PaulMaul

If it’s ugly, it should not be a PSA 10. Seems ridiculous to me that a card gets an 8 for one tiny corner touch but can get a 10 when large portions of card surface are ripped off.

JoeBanzai

@brad31 said:
While not a 10 this is one of my favorite cards in my collection. The color pops and I like the rough cut.

Beautiful card.

JoeBanzai

@brad31 said:
My understanding (and someone will correct me if I am wrong) OPC and early Topps used wires instead of blades to cut stacks of sheets. Depending on where the sheet was on the stack the wires caused the rough cuts.

It goes pretty far on rough cuts not affecting grades. This Carlton is an example:

Wires have been rumored to have been used.

More likely is cards with a rough cut were cut with too many sheets at a time. The blades (or wires) would then tear the paper.

I worked in a place that cut paper and other materials from sheets and if you tried to cut too many sheets at a time, you would get a similar rough cut.

Dull blades would make it even worse.

brad31

@JoeBanzai said:

@brad31 said:
While not a 10 this is one of my favorite cards in my collection. The color pops and I like the rough cut.

Beautiful card.

Thank you - bought it a long time ago and at the time was the most I ever spent on a card. Have enjoyed having it in my collection.

JoeBanzai

@brad31 said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@brad31 said:
While not a 10 this is one of my favorite cards in my collection. The color pops and I like the rough cut.

Beautiful card.

Thank you - bought it a long time ago and at the time was the most I ever spent on a card. Have enjoyed having it in my collection.

Centering is outstanding, as well as color, light rough cut does not detract eye appeal on this beauty.

PatriotTrading

Is that even a rough cut? It looks like it was damaged by mice chewing on the paper while they were in a box. Is that even a legit flip? Its an old one for sure. It does look like i has a lot of frosting where its supposed to be sonically sealed.

bgr

PSA is the perfect mix of:

1. Arbitrary with what is considered defect vs. production process. Here we observe defect graded as production process. Oops.
2. Inconsistent with the application of their standards. They may be getting better but it’s hard to tell considering the dramatic increase in grading overall. Based on centering alone many of the 10s on the registry would not be 10s today.
3. Quiet as a mouse. They don’t share anything about the process or technology. I doubt this is because of intellectual property or trade secret. The only reason to be secretive as to process is when the process is weak and/or flawed.

It took me a while to accept that the process of grading is just one of those silly things I do. It’s a game. I wish luck to anyone navigating this as a business.

bgr

Now that grader-notes have arrived on express level services all of our prayers have been answered.

I expect to see. "Perfect edges"

UlyssesExtravaganza

@JoeBanzai said:

@brad31 said:
My understanding (and someone will correct me if I am wrong) OPC and early Topps used wires instead of blades to cut stacks of sheets. Depending on where the sheet was on the stack the wires caused the rough cuts.

It goes pretty far on rough cuts not affecting grades. This Carlton is an example:

Wires have been rumored to have been used.

More likely is cards with a rough cut were cut with too many sheets at a time. The blades (or wires) would then tear the paper.

I worked in a place that cut paper and other materials from sheets and if you tried to cut too many sheets at a time, you would get a similar rough cut.

Dull blades would make it even worse.

I think that was it (too many at a time) and feel like I read an explanation of it on these boards. That the ladies who were employed by OPC were motivated/incentivized to pump out quantity, the more the better and quicker. So they took to laying 3 sheets down at once to be more productive.

ElMagoStrikeZone

YUCK. I love rough cuts, too, but that was a toddler with dull scissors job.

JoeBanzai

@UlyssesExtravaganza said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@brad31 said:
My understanding (and someone will correct me if I am wrong) OPC and early Topps used wires instead of blades to cut stacks of sheets. Depending on where the sheet was on the stack the wires caused the rough cuts.

It goes pretty far on rough cuts not affecting grades. This Carlton is an example:

Wires have been rumored to have been used.

More likely is cards with a rough cut were cut with too many sheets at a time. The blades (or wires) would then tear the paper.

I worked in a place that cut paper and other materials from sheets and if you tried to cut too many sheets at a time, you would get a similar rough cut.

Dull blades would make it even worse.

I think that was it (too many at a time) and feel like I read an explanation of it on these boards. That the ladies who were employed by OPC were motivated/incentivized to pump out quantity, the more the better and quicker. So they took to laying 3 sheets down at once to be more productive.

I have never thought that anyone would use a "vibrating wire" to cut large quantities of cards, but I suppose stranger idea have been tried in manufacturing.

jraytay

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
YUCK. I love rough cuts, too, but that was a toddler with dull scissors job.

Miniature Deckle Edge Cut.

grote15

It would bother me more with the Topps version vs OPC whose production methods were more primitive vs Topps.

Here is an interesting thread with a guy who worked at the OPC factory during the 1970s.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1083562/the-mystery-of-how-o-pee-chee-cards-were-cut-is-solved

olb31

It's all about consistency. I got a 5 on a 1987 Montana UK card because of a rough cut. Looked on line and there was a Tony Dorsett PSA 10 with the same roughcut. If the card looks "minty" the grade should reflect it. The Montana got a 10 from SGC and in my opinion the card looked great.

But if the standard is a rough cut topps cards grades a 7 then all of them should be 7's or less. This is why we get ticked about our grades. One person gets a 10 with 60/40 centering and the next person gets a 9 for 55/45 centering. one person gets an 8.5 with PD and the next gets a 6 with almost the identical PD.

All you have to do to get your Blood pressure up is look at our buddies from up North sells and you will see lots of inconsistencies.

But I agree with most of you that Visual items should effect the grade more than some 1/4 inch cardboard spider vein that you can't see unless you hold the card at a perfect angle in the sun.