This Morgan $ has an astounding amount of possible VAMS! I found a VAM?

joeykoins

Hi guys,
Recently, I won on a YouTuber's race.
This Beautiful 1880s PCGS ms 65 Morgan.
It has 213 VAMS!
😆
Some are in very high demand too.
Like the 1880/9.
I don't know exactly the specifics on the coin yet. Can't wait to check through all those VAM possibilities!
Anyone have one of these 1880s, in one of the various VAMS?
Thanks

hummingbird_coins

I believe VAMs are to identify various die states/varieties. I don't think they can "stack" to have multiple on the same coin.

MFeld

Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

coinbuf

Fake news.

joeykoins

@MFeld said:
Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

Not according to PCGS'S Price guidelines.

lermish

@joeykoins said:

@MFeld said:
Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

Not according to PCGS'S Price guidelines.

I think you're misunderstanding how that guide displays varieties.

joeykoins

@lermish said:

@joeykoins said:

@MFeld said:
Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

Not according to PCGS'S Price guidelines.

I think you're misunderstanding how that guide displays varieties.

PCGS

MFeld

@joeykoins said:

@MFeld said:
Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

Not according to PCGS'S Price guidelines.

Please show us where it says your particular example encompasses more than one VAM.

MFeld

@joeykoins said:

@lermish said:

@joeykoins said:

@MFeld said:
Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

Not according to PCGS'S Price guidelines.

I think you're misunderstanding how that guide displays varieties.

PCGS

You’re looking at information that pertains to the population of various examples of that date. That’s not the same thing as information about your particular (single) coin/example. A single coin such as yours will only be associated with one VAM.

joeykoins

Here's VAM World too.

Many more pages..

joeykoins

@MFeld said:

@joeykoins said:

@lermish said:

@joeykoins said:

@MFeld said:
Doesn’t that particular “beautiful” 1880-S have just one VAM associated with it, not 213?

Not according to PCGS'S Price guidelines.

I think you're misunderstanding how that guide displays varieties.

PCGS

You’re looking at information that pertains to the population of various examples of that date. That’s not the same thing as information about your particular (single) coin/example. A single coin such as yours will only be associated with one VAM.

Huh?

VAM-101
VAM- 102
...

Mr_Spud

I’m not sure now after reading people’s responses, but I think joeycoins is just meaning that this date/mintmark has a lot of possible VAMs and not that his coin matches more than one VAM.

MFeld

The date, as a whole, might have 200+ VAMs. Your single coin has only one.

joeykoins

Yes!
All I'm saying is this date, 1880s, has 213 VAM possibilities

joeykoins

@MFeld said:
The date, as a whole, might have 200+ VAMs. Your single coin has only one.

Yes, Mark.

Yeah, you're right. I should correct my OP thread.
😆

joeykoins

@MFeld said:
The date, as a whole, might have 200+ VAMs. Your single coin has only one.

Yes, Mark.

I just added one word, "Possible".
Thanks guys.

Morgan13

Your coin is one of 250 possible VAMS. I'm happy for you winning the Morgan.
On the flipside you won't see a premium for that coin by VAM.
It's a common date.
Yours looks to be very nice.
There are 40,335 Morgan's graded ms 65.

messydesk

"Is a" vs. "Has a"

Every Morgan and Peace dollar is a VAM.
Every VAM has a set of attributes that define it.

80-S has many possibilities, which makes it either fun or exhausting to attribute. The mint mark size can cut your work in half right off the bat. Then look at the mint mark position and "pincers" on the top of the 0.

raycyca

In addition, it might have over 200 possible VAMs, but PCGS doesn't recognize all VAMs, only the big ones. And unless it's on the holder, it won't influence the price. But, on the other hand, I LOVE going through coins and antique paperweights to search for rare or unique variety canes. That can render a paperweight rare/valuable/desirable. I've bought many just to search for the "holy grail" so to speak.

RobertScotLover

I wish I never opened this thread up

sellitstore

@RobertScotLover said:
I wish I never opened this thread up

My, how a misunderstanding can be blown out of proportion and destroy a thread.

Yes, @joeykoins makes a good point. There are many die pairs (thus Vams) for the Morgan dollar series, particularly higher mintage dates, like the 1880S. Probably many more varieties than serious collectors, so only the "best" (rare or dramatic appearance) varieties will be actively sought.

There may be only ten of a rare variety known but if only five collectors want it, there's five too many and it's "common" and available.

joeykoins

What a marvelous exploration in the Morgan and Peace Dollar design that came about. All because of these two great gentleman!
Thank you, Mr. Leroy Van Allen and Mr. A. George Mallis!
They opened up a whole new World, VAM World, that brought in a whole new ballgame. In the game of, "Coin Collecting".

Go to the APMEX website for more reading...

Just giving credit where credit is due.

DennisH

1880-S is just a warmup in terms of how many different VAM possiblities there are for that date.
1921-P currently has 436 different possibilities.

messydesk

@joeykoins said:
What a marvelous exploration in the Morgan and Peace Dollar design that came about. All because of these two great gentleman!
Thank you, Mr. Leroy Van Allen and Mr. A. George Mallis!
They opened up a whole new World, VAM World, that brought in a whole new ballgame. In the game of, "Coin Collecting".

Go to the APMEX website for more reading...

Just giving credit where credit is due.

Except that the term "VAM Morgan Dollar" that they repeatedly use is nonsense.

joeykoins

It came Home!
VAM 9 Large "S"?
Luster!

Sorry, bad pics. I'm at work.

ProofCollection

Only a few VAMs matter. Look at the PCGS price guide and you'll see which ones (if any) demand a premium. If it's not shown they don't track the price for it and it's not worth anything extra and it's a nothing burger.

joeykoins

@ProofCollection said:
Only a few VAMs matter. Look at the PCGS price guide and you'll see which ones (if any) demand a premium. If it's not shown they don't track the price for it and it's not worth anything extra and it's a nothing burger.

Look on "PCGS's Coin Facts".
It pinpoints that exact VAM 9, I'm showing.
It lists it at $400 in a ms 65, like mine.

Here's one but by NGC.

david3142

You are starting on the wrong side. All of the desirable 1880-S varieties are overdates so you need to look for a 9 under the last 0 and then possibly a 7 under the second 8.

jmlanzaf

@david3142 said:
You are starting on the wrong side. All of the desirable 1880-S varieties are overdates so you need to look for a 9 under the last 0 and then possibly a 7 under the second 8.

This.

The photos are horrible, but I don't see an overdate.

jmlanzaf

@joeykoins said:

@ProofCollection said:
Only a few VAMs matter. Look at the PCGS price guide and you'll see which ones (if any) demand a premium. If it's not shown they don't track the price for it and it's not worth anything extra and it's a nothing burger.

Look on "PCGS's Coin Facts".
It pinpoints that exact VAM 9, I'm showing.
It lists it at $400 in a ms 65, like mine.

Here's one but by NGC.

Do you see the difference in date ON THE SLAB?

joeykoins

@jmlanzaf said:

@joeykoins said:

@ProofCollection said:
Only a few VAMs matter. Look at the PCGS price guide and you'll see which ones (if any) demand a premium. If it's not shown they don't track the price for it and it's not worth anything extra and it's a nothing burger.

Look on "PCGS's Coin Facts".
It pinpoints that exact VAM 9, I'm showing.
It lists it at $400 in a ms 65, like mine.

Here's one but by NGC.

Do you see the difference in date ON THE SLAB?

Yes, my slab doesn't have any Variety attribution titled on mine.
Yet!
I'm focusing on that "S" mint mark.
I'm thinking, if the S is large, than I automatically have that Variety. No?
Also, my coin is too blotchy to tell if I have an overdate.
Where I have it circled, does NOT mention any "overdate" below it does.

joeykoins

Here's a thought. You might think I'm crazy, if you don't think that already, I might "crack out"?
First, to clean up the sorounding debris around the numbers/ mint mark. With a quick Dip. Than to send in for the VAM?

hummingbird_coins

A slash in the date automatically means it is an overdate. For example 1880/9 means there was a 9 from 1879 under the 0 in 1880. 1880/79 means there was a 79 from 1879 under the 80 in 1880.

jmlanzaf

@joeykoins said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@joeykoins said:

@ProofCollection said:
Only a few VAMs matter. Look at the PCGS price guide and you'll see which ones (if any) demand a premium. If it's not shown they don't track the price for it and it's not worth anything extra and it's a nothing burger.

Look on "PCGS's Coin Facts".
It pinpoints that exact VAM 9, I'm showing.
It lists it at $400 in a ms 65, like mine.

Here's one but by NGC.

Do you see the difference in date ON THE SLAB?

Yes, my slab doesn't have any Variety attribution titled on mine.
Yet!
I'm focusing on that "S" mint mark.
I'm thinking, if the S is large, than I automatically have that Variety. No?
Also, my coin is too blotchy to tell if I have an overdate.
Where I have it circled, does NOT mention any "overdate" below it does.

YOUR slab is an 1880-S. The one you are comparing it to us an 1880/79-S.

joeykoins

Better Photos




Maybe something in those numbers?

david3142

Better photos. Doesn’t look like an overdate to me. I wouldn’t crack it or dip it. It has some original skin. I don’t find it particularly attractive but I wouldn’t risk it turning out worse. Plus you’d need it to come back 66 to compensate you for the expense.

All Morgans are VAMs. There’s just nothing interesting about this coin from a variety standpoint no matter how much you want there to be.

jmlanzaf

@joeykoins said:
Better Photos




Maybe something in those numbers?

So you think PCGS got it wrong but you accidentally got it right?

joeykoins

@jmlanzaf said:

@joeykoins said:
Better Photos




Maybe something in those numbers?

So you think PCGS got it wrong but you accidentally got it right?

Yes!
😁

RobertScotLover

Grading cos often get varieties wrong and I am not just talking about vams with Morgans, I am talking about practically ALL types of U.S. coinage. I would rely on my evaluation skills over theirs any time of the week and I Ain't even that good

alefzero

@joeykoins said:
I'm focusing on that "S" mint mark.
I'm thinking, if the S is large, than I automatically have that Variety. No?

No, emphatically no. You have one of the many large S reverse VAMs of the date. No premium is likely and, IMHO, even the list VAMs of date (1880-S) really don't warrant variety premiums. In the long run, that us where they will go. Even an actual VAM-9 is not a terribly elusive coin, even in high grades.

The enthusiasm for locating a coveted VAM is all great though. The approach is just wrong. And there are much better dates to find VAMs that have significant demand. It is also a tedious date to attribute, even though it has a good share of high grade, well struck, even barely toned ones. A better place is something like the 1879-S Rev 1878. There are a lot more discoveries over the past decade or so, but it is good one to learn well and there are some incredibly lucrative varieties in that subset for the date.

joeykoins

Shissh!
The more I look at that mint mark on my coin. The more I realize I don't even have the "Large S!"
The charts show the top of the S should be even with the ribbon.
Highlighted in red.
Mine doesn't meet that line.

jayPem

@joeykoins said:
Go to the APMEX website for more reading...

Yeah, no.
Safe to say I'll never go to the apmess website ever again...