Need help identifying PVC
JerseyB
Posts: 104 ✭✭✭
I recently sent a few coins from my collection to CAC for sticker. 2 came back with red PVC stickers. Not the end of the world. But I thought that PVC was green. I can see something on the surface of the coins but I just assumed it was decades of some kind of material. I have a few CAC coins that exhibit similar looks. I will post some pictures of the coins that came back PVC (1934D &1923D). All the coins are peace dollars. Are my circled area the PVC?
Now the next coin is a 22D with a sticker 
The obverse of the 22 has some type of crust/film on it but it's not PVC? If it's not PVC, what is it and how do you tell the difference?
Kinda long winded but I tried to make it as short as possible.
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Crack them out give them an acetone bath with 100% pure acetone then send them back to PCGS. I would imagine they know if it is PVC.
They look pretty nicely toned, though, besides the "PVC" or whatever it is.
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Acetone will not affect the toning.
Oh okay never used it
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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That one definitely looks like PVC
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Do not rub them let the acetone do the work use fresh acetone on each side then rinse with fresh acetone and let dry. One hour each side will be more than enough. Use glass dish or bottle with glass or metal lid no inner plastic on the lid. Wipe it down after each coin with acetone.
And pay $45/coin to do so.
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Well either that or let the PVC get worse over time. His choice. Sometimes having graded coins sucks and this is one of those times. I have had the same issue but I just kept them raw after breaking them out (then in acetone they went) I am OK with owning raw coins. Some people need their coins slabbed. If you are never going to sell it what is the difference in the end.
I think you mean "rinse it off" rather than "wipe it down" which could cause hairlines.
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Yes sorry my mistake.
I have no intention to crack. I can live with the coins. Just trying to learn what is and what isn't PVC. I still have no idea. Can someone explain what exactly "crust" would be on a coin and what does it look like? Thanks for any help anyone can offer
PVC contamination has a greasy feel to it. If you can feel this, your coin likely has PVC contamination, which if left untreated, will get worse and eventually will eat into the surface of the coin.
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It will make your coin a lot worse over time that is why we use acetone because we know the long term affects. It can eat at your coin. PVC is serious and not to be left untreated. Sell them and buy new ones or use acetone and keep them raw or send them back for grading the acetone will not affect the coin except removing the PVC.
Or take your chances you asked so we told you what needs to be done. If the PVC gets worse you can be sure the value of your coins will decrease and it could be by a lot depending on the long term damage.
I really just want to know how spot PVC on coins. The 1934 has PVC I have learned that much. But the 23 or the 22? It's not green like I've seen in other pictures from posts here or through Google. If the 22 has no PVC because it's beaned, what is on the obverse surface? Toning?
I agree with this! And you can often feel it on the coin’s edge, so you don’t have to disturb the obverse or reverse face to make the determination. Hard to use this diagnostic in this case, though!
One other good way to tell, as seen in some of the OP’s pics, is to tilt the coin at an extreme angle. On silver, “PVC residue” can manifest as a haze that’s white, grey, or dark to bright green in color. It can somewhat evenly cover a coin’s surfaces, but in many cases, it can be splotchy, heaviest on the high points of a design. Think about where the coin would come into contact with the plastic causing the contamination….on a Peace dollar, that would be areas of Liberty, the Eagle on the reverse, and importantly, the design rims on both faces.
Attributing PVC residue from photos can be difficult. Many Peace Dollars already have light brown water marks (or whatever the industry has determined it to be), and I feel that PVC might be an oft misattributed defect. That said, I think the OP has likely identified it properly on these coins, based on the notes from CAC.
Hard to tell from your images to be honest and the PVC I am use to seen is green but some here have posted coins were it was not green so it is possible. I imagine there are different phases to the PVC on coins. As stated is it was me I would sell them and buy new ones that would be the easiest way to deal with this.
Jerseys,
PVC sometimes appears white. While green is easier to spot, JA doesn’t typically award a CAC sticker if there’s PVC. If you hold your coin parallel to your chest the PVC residue tends to show up in flat indirect light. In the image below, my ‘26 Peace has white PVC where Liberty’s chin meets her neck. It appears as a white cloudy haze on an otherwise nice coin. I’ve heard PVC residue can appear over time in holders. So, that might explain why you have some CAC coins with PVC residue.
It's not itself green. It can sometimes appear green due to HCl contamination. It can also present as white.
It will eventually etch the surface and do permanent damage if it hasn't already.
It cannot be sold in the slab anyway. So cracking it out is no loss to you.
Thanks for the insight. The beaned 22 doesn't necessarily have PVC. I don't want to sound stupid but could the detergent used to clean the planchets 100 years ago leave staining/haze on the surface that is only visible while looking from angle you explained? Similar to milk spots on modern silver.
I can't sell it? Why is that?
It can be sold but I would say you would have to add in the description possible PVC to be honest and that will make the coin sell for less. I know I would just the way I am it would suck to loss money but I rather be honest. Or trade for a similar grade or upgrade it at a coin show if that is a possibility. Again I would suggest to be honest. It sucks this is happened to you but believe me it happens to many of us I have had a few with PVC in PCGS or NGC holders but I like my coins raw so I crack them out unless very rare or AU or higher (what I collect numerical AU is next to impossible to find).
If you do that you are more honest than most that's for sure. If I was to sell I would just ship it to an auction house and let them handle it. I will likely keep the coin and use it as a tool.
Sometimes, a white milky haze on a coin is putty rather than PVC contamination. The good news is that they both can be easily removed with acetone.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
No one will buy a coin with visible PVC
So, if you put it in an auction with no reserve, no one will bid on it?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Not at the grade on the holder which is why, as I said, the holder is not doing him any good. He would be better served conserving it and selling it raw.
I was responding to your claim that "no one will buy it with visible PVC" which is patently false. Obviously, a PVC contaminated coin will do better in the marketplace after it's been conserved and reslabbed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well I must be a complete idiot then. Thanks
Which was a follow up to a question as to why I said he couldn't sell the slab as it is. Sometimes you need to read the whole conversation
That's not what I said. You have admitted to not being able to recognize PVC. Ignorance doesn't make you an idiot. But trying to stick an ignorant buyer with a problem coin isn't ethical.
I disagree. Selling a coin you don't want is not unethical. Its not my obligation to "restore".
I didn't say you couldn't sell it. But selling it without disclosing a known problem is unethical. And disclosing active PVC is toxic to the valuation. So while you don't have an obligation to restore, it would benefit the price realized... unless you're just going to go the unethical route.
@JerseyB said: All the coins are peace dollars. Are my circled area the PVC
During the time I worked in a coin shop I saw countless Peace Dollars with a milky white substance, typically inside the detail and not in the fields. It seemed hard and wouldn't come off with rinsing. I always assumed it was old PVC from some form of storage that must have been common in the past.
Yes seen a number of Peace $ with that. What’s the highest grade of those you saw at auction and how high did some of them go?
I have to believe that peace dollar planchets were prepared differently than say Morgan's. There's a reason why peace dollars generally don't tone like Morgans. It has to be something with the cleaning agents used when preparing the planchets. A majority of peace dollars that I look at and own have crust, film, or whatever else you want to call it on the surface when viewed at an extreme angle. I'm sure plenty have PVC but I also can't imagine that the top grading services are unable to detect PVC when straight grading peace dollars.
I also can't imagine that the top grading services are unable to detect PVC when straight grading peace dollars.
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Unfortunately, grading services do miss PVC or even dismiss tiny amounts as being inconsequential. Remember PVC can only be seen under special light conditions. One cannot determine whether a coin has PVC simply by looking at a picture.
Also, to clarify there is no third party holder that Details "PVC" on the holder.
My understanding is that if a CAC coin has PVC, CACG will remove the PVC upon request. Note though this only applies to coins that already received a CAC.
CAC often finds PVC or putty that was missed. They are highly respected and trusted, obviously.
PVC residue can help induce phenomenally beautiful toning on rare occasions, but of course it is usually detrimental to a coin's appearance.
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