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Older holders, a non-scientific analysis of gradeflation, and GTGs

TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

I purchased a group of these early ANACS soft packs recently, and liked them, so I sent them into our hosts for grading. They include an 1883-CC, 1884-CC, and an 1898-O. The ANACS soft packs are pictured below, and the graded coins with TrueView are also pictured. Sorry, I neglected to take pics of the coins in or out of the soft packs.

Let me know your thoughts and GTGs, if you like. I liked them all and thought they were strong 65s, with a shot at a higher grade, except for, perhaps, the 84-CC.

And here are the TrueViews (no looking):

Tom

Comments

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,400 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is kind of an Apples and Clams comparison.

    Grading at the time of the Photo Certs was very technical, based on the ANA Grading standards. Today's grading is quite different.

    Nice coins, regardless!

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    This is kind of an Apples and Clams comparison.

    Grading at the time of the Photo Certs was very technical, based on the ANA Grading standards. Today's grading is quite different.

    Nice coins, regardless!

    BStrause3, having just watched Bob Bair's presentation at the recent NNP Symposium on "Technical" versus "Market" Grading, I could not agree more. It seems to me that "Market Grading" is not a standard at all, as it floats with the times, and so to refer to it as a "standard" is a bit disingenuous. I still would prefer a set and repeatable "standard" which I think would improve the industry.

    Tom

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting topic, can you post the grades for each coin so I don't have to look each of them up, makes it easier to compare and will make your post much more meaningful unless I am the laziest member here
    thanks

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2024 8:28AM

    Sure!
    65,65 and 66, respectively, so not much, if any, grade-flation, which surprised me.
    Personally, I thought the 83-CC should have made 66, but I don't have them in-hand yet, and when I get coins back from PCGS, I usually agree with the assigned grades. Certainly, it is a very nice coin, and one I would expect to receive a CAC sticker. The 98-O also has a pretty big hit on the neck, so, even though the reverse is stunning, I thought that 65 might be the best grade for that coin.

    Tom

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I might minorly pick a nit about the 84CC, but CCs are normally given a tad more leeway on minor marks due to how they were shipped/stored. And on the 98-O if you average the photo cert grades you'd net a 66 anyway so all in all I think the outcome is pretty much accurate.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,400 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPRC said:
    BStrause3, having just watched Bob Bair's presentation at the recent NNP Symposium on "Technical" versus "Market" Grading, I could not agree more. It seems to me that "Market Grading" is not a standard at all, as it floats with the times, and so to refer to it as a "standard" is a bit disingenuous. I still would prefer a set and repeatable "standard" which I think would improve the industry.

    I love standards. Especially when there is more than one, like three. Because the first thing that happens is everybody decides we need a new standard. And then we have four standards. Nobody EVER retires a standard...

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1st and 3rd looked 66 to me.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guessed 65, 65 and 66. I felt comfortable with the 84-CC because mine in rattler is graded 65 and has that same odd looking mark / line in front of the nose

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭

    Really nice coins! My guesses before taking a look are 65, 65, 65+.

  • jedmjedm Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for an interesting - even if nonscientific analysis. Over the years it seems to be proven (at least to my satisfaction) that the old photo certificate days at ANACS were consistently well graded.

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2024 12:34PM

    Got the coins back. Upon further personal inspection, I agree with the grades assigned by our hosts and, frankly, by ANACS as well!

    Tom

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting and fun project. Nice coins IMO

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8

  • VicPortlandVicPortland Posts: 285 ✭✭✭

    After 50+ years of collecting coins, I feel like I can reasonably grade most coins up to MS64. After that, when one tiny mark (that I can often barely see) can change the grade by a point or two, I leave it to others. And I never buy anything above MS65 for that very reason. Well, that and because I don't have the extra thousands needed to acquire those coins. But for those who have the means, enjoy!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So in other words, we got them right back in 1983 and 84.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    So in other words, we got them right back in 1983 and 84.

    Or PCGS got them right in 2024.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    So in other words, we got them right back in 1983 and 84.

    Tom-Yes you did! And since I took grading courses at the ANA Summer Programs in the early 2000s, with, among others, you, you also taught me well! So, thanks for that.

    Tom

  • Interesting names on the ANACS certificates, I believe Fernandez and Armstrong were counterfeiting PGGS slabs in the 1980's.

    ANA 1106971 MSNS NBS

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