@renomedphys said:
Holy Smokes! The thief walked right behind me while I was talking to Eric at Witter! Great video.
Bob told me he actually figured out the guy's name. He didn't say and I didn't ask, but I am encouraged that at least the police have more to go on.
And regarding the request by police to not openly discuss aspects of the theft, or give any more interviews, I am honestly confused by this. If anything I think Bob should make as much stink about this as possible, keeping the issue fresh and stinky in the public's eye. After all, high profile cases are the ones that actually GET SOLVED.
Doesn't help if the perp flees. And if they melt the nugget or toss it out, I'm not sure you can guarantee a conviction just from that video as I'm not sure you can see the actual nugget. Publicity is not always helpful. I trust law enforcement.
I’m hoping the authorities have even better video analysis tools that can clearly show the theft with this footage.
I also guess he/they may have priors, as he appears to be an experienced thief.
Hard to say. And I'm sure a good defense attorney can use video enhancement as grounds for reasonable doubt. But, as I said, I trust law enforcement to know their business and I suggest the need to gather more evidence as the reason they want limited publicity.
I have a bunch of stolen coins at my house. They were bought from a thief who was charged for theft of similar coins. The police would not allow the victim to reclaim any coins that he could not specifically prove to own. So he had receipts for some slabbed Franklin's, so they took those as evidence. The other ones, even though they were from the same thief and got in the same collection were allowed to be sold (eventually to me).
I know that's a slightly different situation, but I believe they know it is going to be hard to convict the thief off just a grainy or enhanced photo and they are probably hoping to catch him either in possession or trying to sell the nugget.
@Manifest_Destiny said:
Now that I've seen the video, it's obvious that the mustard stain camouflage on his shirt is over the top and should have been a red flag to everyone.
On a related note, it seems like the show organizers know their customer base.
Maybe it’s because we’ve seen a video of the theft…. others might disagree, but to me, this thread doesn’t feel like a good one for jokes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
In other words, profiling.
Good luck getting that back as a policing tool.
What's wrong with that? Numismatics, learning about different aspects of the hobby and buying and selling, interacting with other hobbyists is why I'm here. If it is clear that people are at a show with no real hobby interest or purpose besides a questionable or nefarious objective then they have no reason to be there. Show managers don't have to be rude or unfriendly when interacting with visitors, but in the current dangerous environment there needs to be stepped up alertness and interdiction when called for.
@Manifest_Destiny said:
Now that I've seen the video, it's obvious that the mustard stain camouflage on his shirt is over the top and should have been a red flag to everyone.
On a related note, it seems like the show organizers know their customer base.
Maybe it’s because we’ve seen a video of the theft…. others might disagree, but to me, this thread doesn’t feel like a good one for jokes.
Sometimes when life sucks, and I've had my share of that, all you can do is try to laugh. I get your point though, so I'm out.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
First show I did I was robbed by a 70 year old man in a wheel chair who was a long-time thief/ collector who lifted a half cent while I was dealing with another customer. So, how do you plan on profiling the folks coming in? And how do you plan on growing the hobby if only serious numismatists (however you determine this) are allowed to roam?
This has to be a nominee for worst post of the year.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
REALLY???
I just went back 60 years when all of us with long hair, beards, leather jackets, boots and a cig hanging out of our lips.
With the motor cycle and the music playing Jimi Hendrix and the Doors.............were singled out as trash and trouble makers.
It called Profiling!!! @DeplorableDan avatar you better not show up looking like that!!!
Unbelievable..................
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
First show I did I was robbed by a 70 year old man in a wheel chair who was a long-time thief/ collector who lifted a half cent while I was dealing with another customer. So, how do you plan on profiling the folks coming in? And how do you plan on growing the hobby if only serious numismatists (however you determine this) are allowed to roam?
This has to be a nominee for worst post of the year.
That's just irrational. Any "long-time thief" should be known and be considered persona non grata at a show. And using double barreled words doesn't help address the problem or attack posts without clear reasons. How do we grow the hobby? I can't think of anything that does more damage than people who have no regard for others' personal property as criminals. And my question remains unanswered, what is the point of having people at a coin show who are not interested in the hobby or in buying or selling? You can be as obdurate and refractory as you want but it doesn't change the reality that there are few, not many who have no reason to go to coin shows except to steal.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
First show I did I was robbed by a 70 year old man in a wheel chair who was a long-time thief/ collector who lifted a half cent while I was dealing with another customer. So, how do you plan on profiling the folks coming in? And how do you plan on growing the hobby if only serious numismatists (however you determine this) are allowed to roam?
This has to be a nominee for worst post of the year.
That's just irrational. Any "long-time thief" should be known and be considered persona non grata at a show. And using double barreled words doesn't help address the problem or attack posts without clear reasons. How do we grow the hobby? I can't think of anything that does more damage than people who have no regard for others' personal property as criminals. And my question remains unanswered, what is the point of having people at a coin show who are not interested in the hobby or in buying or selling? You can be as obdurate and refractory as you want but it doesn't change the reality that there are few, not many who have no reason to go to coin shows except to steal.
He was suspected but never convicted. I found that out later. But my point is that as a long time club member and an old guy, he would seem to pass muster. Yet, he was a petty thief.
Meanwhile, a newbie that was unknown to you might seem to not pass muster yet prove to be a future star collector.
People will sometimes stop into a free show just to see what's going on. Other times they have a family member who is our was a collector or have their own little state quarter collection.
And we're not attacking your post without obvious reasons. The idea of profiling attendees is offensive on the face of it. It's also not nearly as simple as you think. By what criteria would the alleged thief in the video have been denied entry? There's nothing obviously non-numismatic about him.
@logger7 said:
I'd think that if law enforcement wants to find this person they could with their comprehensive facial recognition software. Cornell U. has some top notch image enhancement technology, I've seen their work.
There should be a show manager to identify visitors to these shows with a high likelihood of being a potential risk; no real interaction with dealers, interest in numismatics, etc., standouts in terms of dress, suspicious "teams" of associates with similar modus operandi and give them the boot from the shows! If asked they could be told why, that there is just too much risk to permit possible suspects to mill around. Or questionable people could be escorted around and asked what their purpose is being there, what dealer were they looking for and walk them over. Or give them 5-10 minutes to do their actual business and then leave. That would also send a message to other unsavory characters that they are not welcome.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
REALLY???
I just went back 60 years when all of us with long hair, beards, leather jackets, boots and a cig hanging out of our lips.
With the motor cycle and the music playing Jimi Hendrix and the Doors.............were singled out as trash and trouble makers.
It called Profiling!!! @DeplorableDan avatar you better not show up looking like that!!!
Unbelievable..................
Come on! I look like that every day, even at coin shows, minus the bathrobe.
@logger7
I believe your intentions are good.
And it because of that I write the following:
Allow me to ask you a few questions:
First, who are you going to hire to suss out the rift-raff and (potential) thieves?
Off-duty law enforcement? Not a chance. What Officer is going to risk and provoke a lawsuit when he (heaven forbid) kicks out the wrong guy?
Second, say it is you (with or without training). You have taken on this responsibility and at a show you walk up to someone you suspect may be there with nefarious intention. Even if you simply state, "Good morning. How may I be of service?" and the suspect glances in your direction and tells you to F-off, what are you going to then do?
Third, like the receipt checkers are Walmart, you're in for a difficult ride if people simply ignore you as really- no one is under any obligation to speak with you (or even law enforcement) unless they are being detained.
Side note: suspecting someone of committing a crime based on appearance is not grounds for a detention.
Anyways, the above may very well simply fall of deft ears, yet I do hope you re-think your stance on this and come up with better methodology on solving the theft problem at coin shows.
I'd agree that the screening for problem actors should be as generous as is reasonable, but that's what show dealers and managers are good at. Frankly it's probably an impossible task, however the perpetrator who stole the $80K nugget looked extremely suspicious to me, a criminal street snake. There are a limited number of people at a show sometimes to keep an eye on suspicious characters. The dealer whose vehicle was robbed said that he's asked suspicious characters to leave shows. https://tinyurl.com/ms72wurs
@braddick said: @logger7
I believe your intentions are good.
And it because of that I write the following:
Allow me to ask you a few questions:
First, who are you going to hire to suss out the rift-raff and (potential) thieves?
Off-duty law enforcement? Not a chance. What Officer is going to risk and provoke a lawsuit when he (heaven forbid) kicks out the wrong guy?
Second, say it is you (with or without training). You have taken on this responsibility and at a show you walk up to someone you suspect may be there with nefarious intention. Even if you simply state, "Good morning. How may I be of service?" and the suspect glances in your direction and tells you to F-off, what are you going to then do?
Third, like the receipt checkers are Walmart, you're in for a difficult ride if people simply ignore you as really- no one is under any obligation to speak with you (or even law enforcement) unless they are being detained.
Side note: suspecting someone of committing a crime based on appearance is not grounds for a detention.
Anyways, the above may very well simply fall of deft ears, yet I do hope you re-think your stance on this and come up with better methodology on solving the theft problem at coin shows.
Undercover folks have a very long criminal database in their head after dealing with the criminal element for so long.
Following folks on camera you recognize if you’re hired to work at a show you’re local to is a very real possibility and would be very effective.
Would some kind of decoy fake coins/nuggets with tracking thingys in them help? Then publicize it if a thief gets caught and then it might act as a deterrent if/when potential thiefs hear about it.
@Mr_Spud said:
Would some kind of decoy fake coins/nuggets with tracking thingys in them help? Then publicize it if a thief gets caught and then it might act as a deterrent if/when potential thiefs hear about it.
I don’t even think it’s necessary. At bigger shows you’d need 2-4 guys watching cameras relaying info to the police working the floor about people they see do stuff they shouldn’t, i.e. pulling on case handles like the nugget napper here.
@Mr_Spud said:
Would some kind of decoy fake coins/nuggets with tracking thingys in them help? Then publicize it if a thief gets caught and then it might act as a deterrent if/when potential thiefs hear about it.
I don’t even think it’s necessary. At bigger shows you’d need 2-4 guys watching cameras relaying info to the police working the floor about people they see do stuff they shouldn’t, i.e. pulling on case handles like the nugget napper here.
I agree with you completely. Vegas style spotters would solve a lot of problems.
...And then I think of how many board members complain about entrance fees at shows and just chuckle to myself.
Wow, that video really puts into perspective how busy and crowded the show was and how difficult the booth security must have been with all the distractions and business. Sad event, sure hope they catch the guy and accomplices.
@Mr_Spud said:
Would some kind of decoy fake coins/nuggets with tracking thingys in them help? Then publicize it if a thief gets caught and then it might act as a deterrent if/when potential thiefs hear about it.
Better yet, put a remotely controlled detonation device inside the fake nugget.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If anything this is a wake up call to reinforce one’s own show security protocol, see the big picture.
What this drives home -
Thieves are attracted to big ticket items. At a highly attended show shoplifters will be out in force. There they scouted it and targeted him, getting it, working their way around the human element. They did not even have to do a smash and grab. I have been at shows where the people coming in the bourse room obviously broke, but they came to steal.
Even in showing stuff watch them like a hawk. If I leave my table at a show I lock my cases. No exceptions. If I had a defective lock I would move that cases inventory into another case (where no lock problems) just stacking stuff. Take the bad case back to the car or notify bourse chairman if rental.
As far as an $80k item that’s a bigger value than probably the total inventory value of most in the room. I would be very hesitant take it to a show more likely prefer a private transaction with a client. Even with a locked case they could do a smash and grab - especially a super big ticket item. Or simply target one at closing / travel home.
@MFeld said:
Based on the video, the thief was so brazen, I’d be surprised if he hasn’t been at it for a long time.
Agree. I bet that he has a long list of prior arrests for shoplifting and theft but he kept being released by bleeding-heart prosecutors.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Mr_Spud said:
Would some kind of decoy fake coins/nuggets with tracking thingys in them help? Then publicize it if a thief gets caught and then it might act as a deterrent if/when potential thiefs hear about it.
You know what?
That's not a bad idea.
The only person who gets hurt by it is the one who steals it.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Comments
Hard to say. And I'm sure a good defense attorney can use video enhancement as grounds for reasonable doubt. But, as I said, I trust law enforcement to know their business and I suggest the need to gather more evidence as the reason they want limited publicity.
I have a bunch of stolen coins at my house. They were bought from a thief who was charged for theft of similar coins. The police would not allow the victim to reclaim any coins that he could not specifically prove to own. So he had receipts for some slabbed Franklin's, so they took those as evidence. The other ones, even though they were from the same thief and got in the same collection were allowed to be sold (eventually to me).
I know that's a slightly different situation, but I believe they know it is going to be hard to convict the thief off just a grainy or enhanced photo and they are probably hoping to catch him either in possession or trying to sell the nugget.
Now that I've seen the video, it's obvious that the mustard stain camouflage on his shirt is over the top and should have been a red flag to everyone.
On a related note, it seems like the show organizers know their customer base.
Maybe it’s because we’ve seen a video of the theft…. others might disagree, but to me, this thread doesn’t feel like a good one for jokes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
In other words, profiling.
Good luck getting that back as a policing tool.
peacockcoins
What's wrong with that? Numismatics, learning about different aspects of the hobby and buying and selling, interacting with other hobbyists is why I'm here. If it is clear that people are at a show with no real hobby interest or purpose besides a questionable or nefarious objective then they have no reason to be there. Show managers don't have to be rude or unfriendly when interacting with visitors, but in the current dangerous environment there needs to be stepped up alertness and interdiction when called for.
Sometimes when life sucks, and I've had my share of that, all you can do is try to laugh. I get your point though, so I'm out.
OMG.........
Did you read what you wrote???
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Tried to upscale and capture his exit.
Again, what's wrong with some shrewd oversight? Probably at the large shows with more foot traffic than deals, it would be a real challenge. The objective of course of any show manager should be to run a good show, but additionally providing superlative oversight to prevent crime. Most of the northeast shows, especially the smaller ones people who are there to do no real business stick out like sore thumbs. As one of the dealers said who was robbed going up to unsavory potential thieves and telling them to leave is the absolute right of the show which is a private function.
First show I did I was robbed by a 70 year old man in a wheel chair who was a long-time thief/ collector who lifted a half cent while I was dealing with another customer. So, how do you plan on profiling the folks coming in? And how do you plan on growing the hobby if only serious numismatists (however you determine this) are allowed to roam?
This has to be a nominee for worst post of the year.
REALLY???
I just went back 60 years when all of us with long hair, beards, leather jackets, boots and a cig hanging out of our lips.
With the motor cycle and the music playing Jimi Hendrix and the Doors.............were singled out as trash and trouble makers.
It called Profiling!!!
@DeplorableDan avatar you better not show up looking like that!!!
Unbelievable..................
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
That's just irrational. Any "long-time thief" should be known and be considered persona non grata at a show. And using double barreled words doesn't help address the problem or attack posts without clear reasons. How do we grow the hobby? I can't think of anything that does more damage than people who have no regard for others' personal property as criminals. And my question remains unanswered, what is the point of having people at a coin show who are not interested in the hobby or in buying or selling? You can be as obdurate and refractory as you want but it doesn't change the reality that there are few, not many who have no reason to go to coin shows except to steal.
He was suspected but never convicted. I found that out later. But my point is that as a long time club member and an old guy, he would seem to pass muster. Yet, he was a petty thief.
Meanwhile, a newbie that was unknown to you might seem to not pass muster yet prove to be a future star collector.
People will sometimes stop into a free show just to see what's going on. Other times they have a family member who is our was a collector or have their own little state quarter collection.
And we're not attacking your post without obvious reasons. The idea of profiling attendees is offensive on the face of it. It's also not nearly as simple as you think. By what criteria would the alleged thief in the video have been denied entry? There's nothing obviously non-numismatic about him.
Come on! I look like that every day, even at coin shows, minus the bathrobe.
@logger7
I believe your intentions are good.
And it because of that I write the following:
Allow me to ask you a few questions:
First, who are you going to hire to suss out the rift-raff and (potential) thieves?
Off-duty law enforcement? Not a chance. What Officer is going to risk and provoke a lawsuit when he (heaven forbid) kicks out the wrong guy?
Second, say it is you (with or without training). You have taken on this responsibility and at a show you walk up to someone you suspect may be there with nefarious intention. Even if you simply state, "Good morning. How may I be of service?" and the suspect glances in your direction and tells you to F-off, what are you going to then do?
Third, like the receipt checkers are Walmart, you're in for a difficult ride if people simply ignore you as really- no one is under any obligation to speak with you (or even law enforcement) unless they are being detained.
Side note: suspecting someone of committing a crime based on appearance is not grounds for a detention.
Anyways, the above may very well simply fall of deft ears, yet I do hope you re-think your stance on this and come up with better methodology on solving the theft problem at coin shows.
peacockcoins
I'd agree that the screening for problem actors should be as generous as is reasonable, but that's what show dealers and managers are good at. Frankly it's probably an impossible task, however the perpetrator who stole the $80K nugget looked extremely suspicious to me, a criminal street snake. There are a limited number of people at a show sometimes to keep an eye on suspicious characters. The dealer whose vehicle was robbed said that he's asked suspicious characters to leave shows. https://tinyurl.com/ms72wurs
Undercover folks have a very long criminal database in their head after dealing with the criminal element for so long.
Following folks on camera you recognize if you’re hired to work at a show you’re local to is a very real possibility and would be very effective.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Would some kind of decoy fake coins/nuggets with tracking thingys in them help? Then publicize it if a thief gets caught and then it might act as a deterrent if/when potential thiefs hear about it.
Mr_Spud
I don’t even think it’s necessary. At bigger shows you’d need 2-4 guys watching cameras relaying info to the police working the floor about people they see do stuff they shouldn’t, i.e. pulling on case handles like the nugget napper here.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I agree with you completely. Vegas style spotters would solve a lot of problems.
...And then I think of how many board members complain about entrance fees at shows and just chuckle to myself.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Wow, that video really puts into perspective how busy and crowded the show was and how difficult the booth security must have been with all the distractions and business. Sad event, sure hope they catch the guy and accomplices.
Better yet, put a remotely controlled detonation device inside the fake nugget.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What a horrible loss. I hope he has it insured.
If anything this is a wake up call to reinforce one’s own show security protocol, see the big picture.
What this drives home -
Thieves are attracted to big ticket items. At a highly attended show shoplifters will be out in force. There they scouted it and targeted him, getting it, working their way around the human element. They did not even have to do a smash and grab. I have been at shows where the people coming in the bourse room obviously broke, but they came to steal.
Even in showing stuff watch them like a hawk. If I leave my table at a show I lock my cases. No exceptions. If I had a defective lock I would move that cases inventory into another case (where no lock problems) just stacking stuff. Take the bad case back to the car or notify bourse chairman if rental.
As far as an $80k item that’s a bigger value than probably the total inventory value of most in the room. I would be very hesitant take it to a show more likely prefer a private transaction with a client. Even with a locked case they could do a smash and grab - especially a super big ticket item. Or simply target one at closing / travel home.
Based on the video, the thief was so brazen, I’d be surprised if he hasn’t been at it for a long time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Strongly agree. Yes I noticed that too. Be it the $ amount or that it a team of pros. Horrible
I think he was some kind of pro, especially if he had accomplices. Then the crowd possibly a factor in his favor. Very brazen.
More security costs more money, but I think the biggest deterrent would be more uniformed police officers on the floor. But again, it costs money.
Agree. I bet that he has a long list of prior arrests for shoplifting and theft but he kept being released by bleeding-heart prosecutors.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You know what?
That's not a bad idea.
The only person who gets hurt by it is the one who steals it.
Pete