Should I get the date added to a PCGS-holdered error, and can it be done at a show?
airplanenut
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I bought the coin below a couple of years ago as a 196X (that's how the date is written on the slab). The more I've looked at it, the more I'm fully convinced it's a 1968. While on the Lincoln obverse side the last digit is a blob, on the other side, there's a curve in the C of CENT which looks (to me) like the upper left side of an 8 to the lower right side of an 8. The only digits that have curvature and no straight lines in the middle are 6, 8, and 9 (and 3, but it's clad, so post-1964). For a 6, the curve on the left side would go down, and for a 9, the curve on the right side would go up. I think it has to be an 8.
With that said, I emailed PCGS shortly after I got the coin and asked if they could confirm they agreed with me, and if so, if the coin could be reholdered in a 1968-dated slab. The exchange became a frustrating mix of form letter "we can't assess a coin unless you submit it" and "a PCGS dealer can help you understand what coins you have." Finally I thought I explained what I was asking and they said they'd check, and then I never heard anything again.
I don't have any plans to sell the coin, and to that end I don't want to put much money into reholdering it. I'll be at the ANA in a few months and thought doing it at a show could help save at least on the shipping costs. Of course, if I submit it there and then it needs to go through months of review, it won't save me that much. So my two questions:
1- Does anyone know of a way to get this change "approved" so to speak ahead of the show so they can just confirm it's the same coin and reholder it there (assuming they agree with my assessment)
2- Again, assuming I'm right about the 8, would this be considered an error on their part (it should have been holdered as a 1968, not a 196X) where the reholder might be free, or would I really be looking at $25 for the show reholder (whoa!) plus possibly the per-order fee on top of that? And if the latter, is it worth it? I have no plans to sell, but if I ever decide to, does the date confirmation add enough value to justify putting $25-35 into the coin?
From CoinFacts:
Comments
Clearly an '8' from Roosie date.
Clearly an 8 on both dates
I wonder if striking the smaller yet harder (than bronze) cupronickel dime would have left an odd impression in the dies?
Might be fun to find a matching Mint state dime with a cent clash mark.
The Lincoln bust is pre 69 also.
No, it could not have indented the die.
The motto IN GOD WE TRUST proves it is a 1968. You may quote me to PCGS if you like.
It would behoove you to get the 1968 full date on the label to increase the sale price of the coin when you go to sell it. This is a simple mechanical error submission (no charge), but pcgs won’t be able to fully do it at the ANA. I’m sure they will want to get the approval from Jon Sullivan before they change the label, which means a trip home to California first.
Well, if it's at the ANA, maybe I can just get him to walk over and give his approval. Which gives me another idea... @SullivanNumismatics any thoughts on the best/most cost-effective next step?
Even thou its probably a 1968 there is no clear last digit so I doubt that they will change it on the holder..
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is the 8 from the dime in the lower half of the C?
The date doesn’t need to be clear on a coin to be holdered as such, it just needs to be definitive based on what is known about the coin. Years ago I sent a Lincoln cent with brockage obliterating most of the obverse, and the coin has no date. I worked with someone who knows Lincolns really well and was able to prove the date based on visible die markers, and even though the coin has no date visible whatsoever, it’s in a holder that says 1973.
Yes and yes.
I had a "no date" New Jersey quarter brockage in an "E11111 Various Various" holder that I had reholdered at a show to at least say 1999 on it. The mint mark wasn't there, so it's still in a Various Various holder, but the date's on it. Yours is much more obviously a 1968.
Various Various -- sounds like some Roman bureaucrat in charge of assorted stuff none of the governors really cared about.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
That one’s easy. A new reverse hub in 1973 doubled the size of the designer’s initials. My first published numismatic discovery. The 1974 hub reduced them back by about a third.
The 1968 obverse hub is unique for the way IN GOD WE TRUST crowds the rim. They fixed it in 1969.
There is also the potential your asking price if it was fully dated might be realized just as is without all the added work on your part.
Sometimes the selling price of these is all over the board and the right buyer wouldn't need you to jump through hoops.
peacockcoins
A brief interjection - that's a super cool coin!
(I have no opinion on whether/how to change the label...)
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I don't disagree, and that's where it would be much easier to stomach paying $10 than, say, $50. I'm not well versed in errors (I have few, and coins like this are just neat to me, not part of a broader collecting goal) but it seems that in general, when a date may or may not be present (clips and off-centers are great examples) the dated examples get a premium of some kind, maybe just because by probability fewer examples will have a date than won't. The crux of the question--and your second sentence--is what it takes to find that buyer. The buyer who doesn't require the hoops may be out there, but if there are a dozen other buyers ready to go if the work is done, the time savings could justify the work, even if in the end the price doesn't change. Or I just hold onto the coin for the rest of my life and it's not really my problem.
I'm thinking this is anywhere between 1K and $1,500. coin (I don't know the grade).
I also wonder how wrong I am!
peacockcoins
Assuming it’s holdered as a 196X 1C, the dime date (full or partial) would have no bearing.
I paid $20 at a show.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I don't have a photo of the slab handy, but here's what's listed on the PCGS website, which should be what's on the slab:
That's where the ancillary costs matter--show reholders are listed as $25, but if there's a submission fee ($8 or $10?) and then return shipping if they can't do it at the show, that cost can grow quickly. If they decide it's a mechanical error and do it for free and there's no shipping, that would be a total win.
As much as I'd like to point, laugh, and point out just how wrong you are, unfortunately for me you're right.
This is definitely a mechanical error because it’s the coin’s dates that should absolutely be listed on the label. Just a simple fix that pcgs will take care of at no charge. No reholder fee or shipping fee or $10 fee. Trust me when I say that you’ll be doing yourself a favor by fixing the label now getting the 2 dates added (should read 1968 cent double denomination on struck 1968 dime). Nobody wants to purchase a problem label where they’re gonna have to go and get everything fixed with pcgs. You will achieve a much higher selling price when the time comes.
PS: don’t push the issue of trying to pressure Jon or pcgs to expedite this process at the ANA, it’s not gonna be an instant fix. I know from personal experience getting error coin labels corrected.
I don’t think pressure is the right word to use—if it’s possible to do some of the work ahead of time or at the show and that makes it possible for things to go faster, great. If not—especially if a delay doesn’t cost me anything—no biggie. I suppose my thinking was that if the photos are enough to identify everything (as opposed to, say, needing to do a metal analysis in hand), then at the show it could be as easy as confirming the coin I bring is indeed the same one in the photos.