I believe that color bumps should be limited to one full grade point at the most, for astounding color and eye appeal. It appears that they were a bit overzealous with this one as a 67+...🤪
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Okay. Seems like a hot potato , changing hands/ ownership that quick. I commend the profiteers and pity the end user.
Unless the end user loves it and it's exactly what they wanted... Then there's no pity necessary. 🤷 But if they think they are going to flip it again they may find it a lot harder the 3rd time around.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Okay. Seems like a hot potato , changing hands/ ownership that quick. I commend the profiteers and pity the end user.
Unless the end user loves it and it's exactly what they wanted... Then there's no pity necessary. 🤷 But if they think they are going to flip it again they may find it a lot harder the 3rd time around.
Unless it upgrades to a 68-then anything is possible.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Okay. Seems like a hot potato , changing hands/ ownership that quick. I commend the profiteers and pity the end user.
Unless the end user loves it and it's exactly what they wanted... Then there's no pity necessary. 🤷 But if they think they are going to flip it again they may find it a lot harder the 3rd time around.
Unless it upgrades to a 68-then anything is possible.
At this pace it’ll be a 70 by the end of the year.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Okay. Seems like a hot potato , changing hands/ ownership that quick. I commend the profiteers and pity the end user.
Unless the end user loves it and it's exactly what they wanted... Then there's no pity necessary. 🤷 But if they think they are going to flip it again they may find it a lot harder the 3rd time around.
Unless it upgrades to a 68-then anything is possible.
At this pace it’ll be a 70 by the end of the year.
I won the pop 1/0 coin at Heritage when it sold in 2017. With this description…
1969-D Half Dollar, MS67+
The Sole Finest Certified
1969-D 50C MS67+ PCGS. In 1969, only the Denver Mint struck half dollars for circulation. This issue is scarce in high grade and a genuine rarity at the Superb Gem level. Above MS65, it is every bit as scarce as the 1970-D, which was issued only in Mint Sets. This Plus-designated MS67 coin might have garnered an even finer grade were it not a few tiny ticks in the left obverse field. The piece is well-struck, and a light champagne hue on each side adds to its appeal. As it stands, this is the single finest 1969-D Kennedy half dollar certified, even if only by the margin of the Plus designation. Population: 21 in 67 (1 in 67+), 0 finer (9/17).(Registry values: N208).
A “bare naked” near brilliant coin exposing every mark there is (and from a standpoint of marks they appear 1-2 grades apart). But, what do I know! I also got in a beautiful toned PCGS-MS67+ specimen as I recall when I bought Casabrown’s complete top 5 MS Kennedy set a few years ago. Now, my pop 1 is a pop 6, but perhaps PCGS can select one of my 2 coins to upgrade to MS68 when I eventually submit them both together.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
U1Chicago. Great coin but mark on neck may preclude a super grade - yes? That MS68 example was a fairly flawless white coin as I recall when I was offered the coin a few decades ago.
Wondercoin
I think MS 65 is about right on mine (I bought it for the color and not the grade). But then I figured MS 66 was about right for the coin that turned 67+ so anything is possible!
@Martin said:
Serious question, does anyone here feel like the person that submitted before the last guy got a little hosed?
Martin
Going just by the information that we have been provided? No.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion and experience greatly
Just that one time through it’s a $400 coin the next time it’s a 1.5 grade jump and a $4000.00 dollar coin. Same coin different grade.
I guess I just imagine a collector submitting the first time around and an experienced dealer the second time. Probably not even close to the actual happenings of the events
If I was the first guy and seen this I would be scratching my head a little
@Martin said:
Serious question, does anyone here feel like the person that submitted before the last guy got a little hosed?
Martin
Going just by the information that we have been provided? No.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion and experience greatly
Just that one time through it’s a $400 coin the next time it’s a 1.5 grade jump and a $4000.00 dollar coin. Same coin different grade.
I guess I just imagine a collector submitting the first time around and an experienced dealer the second time. Probably not even close to the actual happenings of the events
If I was the first guy and seen this I would be scratching my head a little
Thanks for the Input
Martin
I understand your point of view and get where you are aiming with the idea and I can absolutely see how others would agree with you.
I don't really see it as a 1.5 point grade jump since the coin might have been an MS66.6 the previous time through PCGS (labeled as MS66) and then an MS67.7 the second time through PCGS (labeled MS67+). That is barely over a one-point increase in grade. Of course, it might have been an MS66.0 vs. MS67.9 and we would be talking nearly a two-point increase, but it was more likely the former scenario and not the latter.
I have historically adhered to the idea that a two-point difference in grade can be reasonably expected to occur between knowledgeable numismatists who each understand the grading of an issue in the MS region. It might have been in the fabulous Scott Travers book "The Coin Collector's Survival Manual" that I first read that idea. My copy is from 1994, but there is an earlier edition. Alternatively, it might have been in the absolutely fantastic first edition of the PCGS book "Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection" from 1997 where I first saw this idea in print. I stress first edition for the PCGS book since it is a glossy, full color, heavyweight paper, large format book that even had a coupon in the back for free grading that was equivalent to the price of the book when new! Later editions appear to be on lower quality paper and smaller format and may not be full color.
So, I am approaching this coin and its subsequent auction history, from the perspective that a two-point MS grade difference can occur among knowledgeable folks as well as the idea that any grade from any TPG simply represents a single data point in time. That's it. It isn't a "final" grade and isn't necessarily "right"...it's merely a single data point from one grading event. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a seller to understand the market, the grade and the sales options. If the seller in the first auction listed didn't agree with the grade or felt strongly enough that there was potentially too much money to be left on the table or was willing to invest into getting the coin into a higher graded holder then they should have done so. The fact that a subsequent buyer did and was rewarded does not equate to the first consignor being hosed. Heck, the first auction consignor might have purchased the coin for $20 in a PCGS AT holder and had it regraded themselves for a handsome profit!
I apologize for the longwinded answer, and you can certainly disagree without being wrong, but this is how I view this case.
@coinbuf said: I'm not saying that my experience with one coin proves anything.
To my way of thinking I don't believe it does. This sort of thing is a lot like gambling, the tendency is to brag about success and ignore failure. You just don't see threads where a member says how they submitted coins at a show and the results were disappointing. It's human nature and it tends to distort the perception of what takes place. The submissions themselves tend to be ones which a submitter has high expectations for. JMHO, of course.
This is scary. @TomB wrote: "So, I am approaching this coin and its subsequent auction history, from the perspective that a two-point MS grade difference can occur among knowledgeable folks [who cannot grade worth a damn! LOL] as well as the idea that any grade from any TPG simply represents a single data point in time. That's it. [In my limited dealings this is true] It isn't a "final" grade and isn't necessarily "right"...it's merely a single data point from one grading event."
Comments
Why would the presence of a fingerprint that has etched into the surface of the coin not affect the grade?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I believe that color bumps should be limited to one full grade point at the most, for astounding color and eye appeal. It appears that they were a bit overzealous with this one as a 67+...🤪
Founder- Peak Rarities
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Okay. Seems like a hot potato , changing hands/ ownership that quick. I commend the profiteers and pity the end user.
HE>I
Unless the end user loves it and it's exactly what they wanted... Then there's no pity necessary. 🤷 But if they think they are going to flip it again they may find it a lot harder the 3rd time around.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Unless it upgrades to a 68-then anything is possible.
At this pace it’ll be a 70 by the end of the year.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
It just might be!
Dibs on MS-72
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I won the pop 1/0 coin at Heritage when it sold in 2017. With this description…
1969-D Half Dollar, MS67+
The Sole Finest Certified
1969-D 50C MS67+ PCGS. In 1969, only the Denver Mint struck half dollars for circulation. This issue is scarce in high grade and a genuine rarity at the Superb Gem level. Above MS65, it is every bit as scarce as the 1970-D, which was issued only in Mint Sets. This Plus-designated MS67 coin might have garnered an even finer grade were it not a few tiny ticks in the left obverse field. The piece is well-struck, and a light champagne hue on each side adds to its appeal. As it stands, this is the single finest 1969-D Kennedy half dollar certified, even if only by the margin of the Plus designation. Population: 21 in 67 (1 in 67+), 0 finer (9/17).(Registry values: N208).
A “bare naked” near brilliant coin exposing every mark there is (and from a standpoint of marks they appear 1-2 grades apart). But, what do I know! I also got in a beautiful toned PCGS-MS67+ specimen as I recall when I bought Casabrown’s complete top 5 MS Kennedy set a few years ago. Now, my pop 1 is a pop 6, but perhaps PCGS can select one of my 2 coins to upgrade to MS68 when I eventually submit them both together.
Wondercoin.
from the pic that MS68 1966 sure looks like a SMS to me
Fair enough. I respect your opinion and experience greatly
Just that one time through it’s a $400 coin the next time it’s a 1.5 grade jump and a $4000.00 dollar coin. Same coin different grade.
I guess I just imagine a collector submitting the first time around and an experienced dealer the second time. Probably not even close to the actual happenings of the events
If I was the first guy and seen this I would be scratching my head a little
Thanks for the Input
Martin
I understand your point of view and get where you are aiming with the idea and I can absolutely see how others would agree with you.
I don't really see it as a 1.5 point grade jump since the coin might have been an MS66.6 the previous time through PCGS (labeled as MS66) and then an MS67.7 the second time through PCGS (labeled MS67+). That is barely over a one-point increase in grade. Of course, it might have been an MS66.0 vs. MS67.9 and we would be talking nearly a two-point increase, but it was more likely the former scenario and not the latter.
I have historically adhered to the idea that a two-point difference in grade can be reasonably expected to occur between knowledgeable numismatists who each understand the grading of an issue in the MS region. It might have been in the fabulous Scott Travers book "The Coin Collector's Survival Manual" that I first read that idea. My copy is from 1994, but there is an earlier edition. Alternatively, it might have been in the absolutely fantastic first edition of the PCGS book "Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection" from 1997 where I first saw this idea in print. I stress first edition for the PCGS book since it is a glossy, full color, heavyweight paper, large format book that even had a coupon in the back for free grading that was equivalent to the price of the book when new! Later editions appear to be on lower quality paper and smaller format and may not be full color.
So, I am approaching this coin and its subsequent auction history, from the perspective that a two-point MS grade difference can occur among knowledgeable folks as well as the idea that any grade from any TPG simply represents a single data point in time. That's it. It isn't a "final" grade and isn't necessarily "right"...it's merely a single data point from one grading event. Therefore, it is the responsibility of a seller to understand the market, the grade and the sales options. If the seller in the first auction listed didn't agree with the grade or felt strongly enough that there was potentially too much money to be left on the table or was willing to invest into getting the coin into a higher graded holder then they should have done so. The fact that a subsequent buyer did and was rewarded does not equate to the first consignor being hosed. Heck, the first auction consignor might have purchased the coin for $20 in a PCGS AT holder and had it regraded themselves for a handsome profit!
I apologize for the longwinded answer, and you can certainly disagree without being wrong, but this is how I view this case.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@coinbuf said: I'm not saying that my experience with one coin proves anything.
To my way of thinking I don't believe it does. This sort of thing is a lot like gambling, the tendency is to brag about success and ignore failure. You just don't see threads where a member says how they submitted coins at a show and the results were disappointing. It's human nature and it tends to distort the perception of what takes place. The submissions themselves tend to be ones which a submitter has high expectations for. JMHO, of course.
This is scary. @TomB wrote: "So, I am approaching this coin and its subsequent auction history, from the perspective that a two-point MS grade difference can occur among knowledgeable folks [who cannot grade worth a damn! LOL] as well as the idea that any grade from any TPG simply represents a single data point in time. That's it. [In my limited dealings this is true] It isn't a "final" grade and isn't necessarily "right"...it's merely a single data point from one grading event."