Church fundraiser--gold buyer

logger7

Our local church has been running these jewelry and precious metals buying weekends with "Bob the gold guy" doing the buying. They announced last weekend that 60% of the profits would go to the youth ministry. Then this week they announced that Bob paid out $23K to those who came with their jewelry, etc. to sell. And $12,500 went to the youth ministry. Is there a better way to run this? The problem is you need someone there to appraise and ultimately buy the jewelry.

tincup

This isn't the first time Bob The Gold Guy has been mentioned here. To make those 'profits' to 'help charity', means the individuals selling the gold are not getting that good of a deal. The 'charity money' is not coming out of Bob's pockets.... it is being taken out of the seller's pockets.

But I will try to be fair. Can you tell me how much 'Bob' is paying for gold and silver?

tincup

Yep.... 2019 thread.... and it was your thread also. Thought I remembered that one!

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12337652#Comment_12337652

logger7

Thanks, I forgot about posting on that; "...there is nothing new under the sun".

He seems to pay half of melt; the charity gets 60% of the profit, so do the math, there are others much better with the numbers than I am with the figures they published.

TomB

@logger7 said:
Thanks, I forgot about posting on that; "...there is nothing new under the sun".

He seems to pay half of melt; the charity gets 60% of the profit, so do the math, there are others much better with the numbers than I am with the figures they published.

I guess I just don't understand how any of this works. Are you writing that Bob pays 50% of melt on gold and then turns around and sells for, perhaps, 90% of melt and the church would then pocket 60% of Bob's profits? In this case, Bob buys $100 worth of gold for $50 and then sells it for $90. The church would receive 60% of the $40 profit ($90 sale minus $50 buy) for a "donation" of $24 while Bob keeps the remaining $16.

Seems absolutely nuts to me why anyone would support that scam.

tincup

TomB, that is unfortunately how I view it also. Back in 2019, as well as now, I view it as a typical 'we buy gold ' scam. And in this case, it targets the church followers who think they are doing a wonderful thing for charity. I guess they ARE benefiting charity, BUT.... Bob is certainly taking his share.

tincup

And.... is Bob paying the 50% of melt for the more valuable old gold coins also? Even more profit for him, as it is likely he keeps the numismatic value for himself, and gives to charity only the 60% of the melt value profit?

And does Bob provide any records to the church proving that ANY of the profit goes to charity? Or is it all hype. And what charity does he give it to... ....the charity of 'Bob'?

How many other churches are on Bob's list where this takes place? I'm sure this is a very profitable venture for Bob. Perhaps he really is on the up and up and has good intentions and is honest. But the setup just doesn't feel right to me..... and seems to be fleecing the flock so to speak. So many questions about this operation.

But..,. if everyone is happy about it.... so be it.

tincup

I found a listing on Instagram where Bob also set up a buying operation at a real estate office.... same setup spiel regarding charity etc. Info at this site indicated the charity donation portion is only after after all refining costs, etc.

And another listing at the Danbury Museum.... same setup.

logger7

@tincup said:
And.... is Bob paying the 50% of melt for the more valuable old gold coins also? Even more profit for him, as it is likely he keeps the numismatic value for himself, and gives to charity only the 60% of the melt value profit?

And does Bob provide any records to the church proving that ANY of the profit goes to charity? Or is it all hype. And what charity does he give it to... ....the charity of 'Bob'?

How many other churches are on Bob's list where this takes place? I'm sure this is a very profitable venture for Bob. Perhaps he really is on the up and up and has good intentions and is honest. But the setup just doesn't feel right to me..... and seems to be fleecing the flock so to speak. So many questions about this operation.

But..,. if everyone is happy about it.... so be it.

I asked him last weekend whether he buys gold coins and he said "no". I'd think a volunteer buyer could do the same thing and I'll see if I can get the ear of a board member who would be willing to consider a different buyer next year.

jmski52

An honest church member could coordinate the sale of all donations to a refinery, yes?

TomB

@jmski52 said:
An honest church member could coordinate the sale of all donations to a refinery, yes?

Heck, an honest church member could simply coordinate a drive and take it all to an honest local dealer and be done with it in one day. No mess, no fuss.

tincup

" The Gold Guy " doesn't buy gold or silver coins? i find that interesting.

logger7

@TomB said:

@jmski52 said:
An honest church member could coordinate the sale of all donations to a refinery, yes?

Heck, an honest church member could simply coordinate a drive and take it all to an honest local dealer and be done with it in one day. No mess, no fuss.

The problem with that is the sellers want to know what they have when they come in; plus the issue of jewels attached to precious metals in jewelry. Most dealers will return the gems. So have a reasonably honest and fair dealer there being paid something for his time, not the type of take Bob hauled in, would be much better for the good of all concerned.

lcoopie

Sounds like a great idea,
For Bob.

jmski52

Bob should go find himself a real job.

SaorAlba

@jmski52 said:
Bob should go find himself a real job.

I wonder what the guy who turned over the moneychangers tables at the market would think of this modern day moneychanger fleecing his flock?

rte592

Wonder if Bob's book are in Order?
Who's taking the write off for the Donation?

tincup

@SaorAlba said:

@jmski52 said:
Bob should go find himself a real job.

I wonder what the guy who turned over the moneychangers tables at the market would think of this modern day moneychanger fleecing his flock?

I would think Bob is taking the writeoff. After all, it is Bob who has bought the items, and Bob owns them; it is Bob who makes the charity donation. So only Bob can have the writeoff?

logger7

@rte592 said:
Wonder if Bob's book are in Order?
Who's taking the write off for the Donation?

He should probably be audited; but audit rates and the prosecutions for white collar crime have collapsed in the last few years.

cohodk

All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

PROMETHIUS88

@TomB said:

@logger7 said:
Thanks, I forgot about posting on that; "...there is nothing new under the sun".

He seems to pay half of melt; the charity gets 60% of the profit, so do the math, there are others much better with the numbers than I am with the figures they published.

I guess I just don't understand how any of this works. Are you writing that Bob pays 50% of melt on gold and then turns around and sells for, perhaps, 90% of melt and the church would then pocket 60% of Bob's profits? In this case, Bob buys $100 worth of gold for $50 and then sells it for $90. The church would receive 60% of the $40 profit ($90 sale minus $50 buy) for a "donation" of $24 while Bob keeps the remaining $16.

Seems absolutely nuts to me why anyone would support that scam.

Exactly!

Just bring in a dealer that is going to pay the 90% of melt(or whatever it may be) thus cutting out the 16% "Bob tax".
They can probably also get money for the gemstones.

Don't get Bob'd!

rte592

@cohodk said:
All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

That might put a damper on Bob's business.
Bobs gotta eat too.

cohodk

@rte592 said:

@cohodk said:
All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

That might put a damper on Bob's business.
Bobs gotta eat too.

If Bob is smart, then he'd be the one educating the parishioners.

tyler267

@rte592 said:
Wonder if Bob's book are in Order?
Who's taking the write off for the Donation?

I think this write-off might be a business deduction instead of a donation.

dcarr

@cohodk said:

@rte592 said:

@cohodk said:
All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

That might put a damper on Bob's business.
Bobs gotta eat too.

If Bob is smart, then he'd be the one educating the parishioners.

.

Business models like his (and like many financial institutions) don't want their chumps to wise up.

.

cohodk

@dcarr said:

@cohodk said:

@rte592 said:

@cohodk said:
All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

That might put a damper on Bob's business.
Bobs gotta eat too.

If Bob is smart, then he'd be the one educating the parishioners.

.

Business models like his (and like many financial institutions) don't want their chumps to wise up.

.

Then they are small and weak. If they would educate their clientele and build trust then their business would flourish and grow by multiples.

dcarr

@cohodk said:

@dcarr said:

@cohodk said:

@rte592 said:

@cohodk said:
All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

That might put a damper on Bob's business.
Bobs gotta eat too.

If Bob is smart, then he'd be the one educating the parishioners.

.

Business models like his (and like many financial institutions) don't want their chumps to wise up.

.

Then they are small and weak. If they would educate their clientele and build trust then their business would flourish and grow by multiples.

.

Citibank made a chump out of the Denver Public School system, taking them for $275 million.
A very profitable venture for Citibank, without having to do any real work.

I doubt they care much about "trust" or "education" when they can make that sort of profit.

.

cohodk

@dcarr said:

@cohodk said:

@dcarr said:

@cohodk said:

@rte592 said:

@cohodk said:
All thus energy directed at Bob should be focused on educating the parishioners.

That might put a damper on Bob's business.
Bobs gotta eat too.

If Bob is smart, then he'd be the one educating the parishioners.

.

Business models like his (and like many financial institutions) don't want their chumps to wise up.

.

Then they are small and weak. If they would educate their clientele and build trust then their business would flourish and grow by multiples.

.

Citibank made a chump out of the Denver Public School system, taking them for $275 million.
A very profitable venture for Citibank, without having to do any real work.

I doubt they care much about "trust" or "education" when they can make that sort of profit.

.

What does that have to do with Bob?

But your point might be a good example. I don't know of this situation you describe, and I don't care, but suppose C had educated and built trust. Don't you think they could take business from other entities that might be viewed in ill light? They would be the "go to" and their business would grow and they would be even more successful and profitable.

pmh1nic

Church board member for 30+ years. Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!

Even if there was a clear explanation I could understand as a coin collector and someone involved in MP the potential for confusion and misunderstanding by a congregation wouldn't be worth the gain.