The seller of the Stargell was never mentioned. Its not the sellers fault that PSA made a mistake grading one of his cards. I keep hearing how PSA is hammering recent vintage submissions but continue to see PSA 9's with multiple corner wear. The original topic was regarding a card being over graded which is in line with the comment regarding the Stargell being over graded.
I'm bemused by how this thread segued from a smackdown of a generally trustworthy eBay seller to analyzing the grade of a Card (card) by cops (forum police) with drops (criticism) on Pops (Wilver Dornell Stargell) flops (inconsistent grading PSA 9).
It did come off like some kinda Dr. Seuss nonsense drivel though, dinnit?
I've sold about 15,000 individual raw cards via GMC over the past two years. I'd say I agree with their raw grade about 75% of the time, with the balance split between too harsh and too generous. That said, I probably only agree with PSA 75% of the time too... I don't think it is possible to have too much higher of a "batting average" - as evidenced by the Guess the Grade posts here. Like with umpires, you don't always agree with the strike zone, but it helps if it is very consistent. GMC seems quite consistent to me - likely why they have so many repeat buyers bidding up the prices. I've been pleased and would recommend.
If you are someone who consigns raw cards which are then presumed to be accurately graded and sold to a satisfied bidder, it makes perfect sense.
It only makes sense if the collector has no intention of ever selling his collection. Otherwise when he decides to sell he will be lucky to receive 50% of what the same card graded by PSA would receive. There's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards. There's hundreds that get high prices for the same cards in PSA holders. Plus buying raw cards leads to over grading, surface wrinkles not shown on the photo, trimmed cards, etc.
Why couldn’t the buyer just resell through GM? He gets better than graded prices in a lot of cases, card for card. I have tons of nice raw cards that won’t go for grading because they will yield more ungraded. I’ll still send in stuff that looks perfect, for everything else, let others play the grading game.
@Yankees70 said:
If you are someone who consigns raw cards which are then presumed to be accurately graded and sold to a satisfied bidder, it makes perfect sense.
It only makes sense if the collector has no intention of ever selling his collection. Otherwise when he decides to sell he will be lucky to receive 50% of what the same card graded by PSA would receive. There's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards. There's hundreds that get high prices for the same cards in PSA holders. Plus buying raw cards leads to over grading, surface wrinkles not shown on the photo, trimmed cards, etc.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Anyone can figure it out. It's basic math. A PSA 8 sells consistently for $100. A raw in the same condition might get a collector $40 if he's lucky. Like I said basic math. Personally when I sold high value vintage I rarely was offered 50% of the current market value from every dealer at a big show. When I had them graded I received 100% of the current market value.
I'm willing to hear why this thinking is incorrect. If you have any data that shows raw cards usually selling for more or equal to a PSA in the same condition I would love to see it.
@80sOPC said:
Why couldn’t the buyer just resell through GM? He gets better than graded prices in a lot of cases, card for card. I have tons of nice raw cards that won’t go for grading because they will yield more ungraded. I’ll still send in stuff that looks perfect, for everything else, let others play the grading game.
@Yankees70 said:
If you are someone who consigns raw cards which are then presumed to be accurately graded and sold to a satisfied bidder, it makes perfect sense.
It only makes sense if the collector has no intention of ever selling his collection. Otherwise when he decides to sell he will be lucky to receive 50% of what the same card graded by PSA would receive. There's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards. There's hundreds that get high prices for the same cards in PSA holders. Plus buying raw cards leads to over grading, surface wrinkles not shown on the photo, trimmed cards, etc.
To answer your question please read my comments that you responded to. I said there's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards and GM is one of them so yes a collector could have GM sell them.
I’m not following your logic. If someone collects raw, then by your logic they can purchase similar cards at 50% of the cost of same card graded. So then selling at the same 50% decrease in a decade doesn’t result in a loss.
And following same train of thought, if you buy from one of the sellers that doesn't get a premium - your 50% off scenario- and sell through the sellers that get do, your upside is fantastic.
But really who cares, collect what you like, buy good cards and have fun. Not everyone wants to play the grading game or have to store bulky slabs.
@Yankees70 said: @ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Anyone can figure it out. It's basic math. A PSA 8 sells consistently for $100. A raw in the same condition might get a collector $40 if he's lucky. Like I said basic math. Personally when I sold high value vintage I rarely was offered 50% of the current market value from every dealer at a big show. When I had them graded I received 100% of the current market value.
I'm willing to hear why this thinking is incorrect. If you have any data that shows raw cards usually selling for more or equal to a PSA in the same condition I would love to see it.
You want......data? Basic math? You have data, you don't need me. I've thrived in this hobby/business for long enough to allow it to supplement my income and push me in a positive direction towards my impending full-time retirement. I owe a lot to the people who have provided their input and expertise along the way, including members of this forum. Taking time to listen and learn requires patience, which applies when you put out your hard earned cash for cards. Knowledge is power.
Here's my theory: Play hunches. That theory has been my wingman, sidekick and best buddy for decades. We still get along just great. Enjoy your cards.
I think that Killebrew is likely a nice PSA 8 due to the vertical centering. It is 65/35, so borderline according to their standards, but I personally don’t think it would be a 9. If that is the case, you paid right around the PSA 8 value.
I'd agree the Killebrew is likely a PSA 8. Very nice card!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@80sOPC said:
I’m not following your logic. If someone collects raw, then by your logic they can purchase similar cards at 50% of the cost of same card graded. So then selling at the same 50% decrease in a decade doesn’t result in a loss.
And following same train of thought, if you buy from one of the sellers that doesn't get a premium - your 50% off scenario- and sell through the sellers that get do, your upside is fantastic.
But really who cares, collect what you like, buy good cards and have fun. Not everyone wants to play the grading game or have to store bulky slabs.
Here's the logic. Some collectors are purchasing raw vintage cards for much more than they could buy the same card in a PSA 8 holder. The card they are buying would most likely receive a 7 or 8 if submitted to PSA. That makes no sense. That is the argument.
@Yankees70 said: @ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Anyone can figure it out. It's basic math. A PSA 8 sells consistently for $100. A raw in the same condition might get a collector $40 if he's lucky. Like I said basic math. Personally when I sold high value vintage I rarely was offered 50% of the current market value from every dealer at a big show. When I had them graded I received 100% of the current market value.
I'm willing to hear why this thinking is incorrect. If you have any data that shows raw cards usually selling for more or equal to a PSA in the same condition I would love to see it.
You want......data? Basic math? You have data, you don't need me. I've thrived in this hobby/business for long enough to allow it to supplement my income and push me in a positive direction towards my impending full-time retirement. I owe a lot to the people who have provided their input and expertise along the way, including members of this forum. Taking time to listen and learn requires patience, which applies when you put out your hard earned cash for cards. Knowledge is power.
Here's my theory: Play hunches. That theory has been my wingman, sidekick and best buddy for decades. We still get along just great. Enjoy your cards.
Translation - I have no data to support my position.
@Yankees70 said: @ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Anyone can figure it out. It's basic math. A PSA 8 sells consistently for $100. A raw in the same condition might get a collector $40 if he's lucky. Like I said basic math. Personally when I sold high value vintage I rarely was offered 50% of the current market value from every dealer at a big show. When I had them graded I received 100% of the current market value.
I'm willing to hear why this thinking is incorrect. If you have any data that shows raw cards usually selling for more or equal to a PSA in the same condition I would love to see it.
You want......data? Basic math? You have data, you don't need me. I've thrived in this hobby/business for long enough to allow it to supplement my income and push me in a positive direction towards my impending full-time retirement. I owe a lot to the people who have provided their input and expertise along the way, including members of this forum. Taking time to listen and learn requires patience, which applies when you put out your hard earned cash for cards. Knowledge is power.
Here's my theory: Play hunches. That theory has been my wingman, sidekick and best buddy for decades. We still get along just great. Enjoy your cards.
Translation - I have no data to support my position.
Dude. Please. Let it go. I have absolutely NO intention of going tête-à-tête with you.
@Yankees70 said: @ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Anyone can figure it out. It's basic math. A PSA 8 sells consistently for $100. A raw in the same condition might get a collector $40 if he's lucky. Like I said basic math. Personally when I sold high value vintage I rarely was offered 50% of the current market value from every dealer at a big show. When I had them graded I received 100% of the current market value.
I'm willing to hear why this thinking is incorrect. If you have any data that shows raw cards usually selling for more or equal to a PSA in the same condition I would love to see it.
You want......data? Basic math? You have data, you don't need me. I've thrived in this hobby/business for long enough to allow it to supplement my income and push me in a positive direction towards my impending full-time retirement. I owe a lot to the people who have provided their input and expertise along the way, including members of this forum. Taking time to listen and learn requires patience, which applies when you put out your hard earned cash for cards. Knowledge is power.
Here's my theory: Play hunches. That theory has been my wingman, sidekick and best buddy for decades. We still get along just great. Enjoy your cards.
Translation - I have no data to support my position.
Dude. Please. Let it go. I have absolutely NO intention of going tête-à-tête with you.
Enjoy your cards.
Come down Francis. I'm not taking anything you say personal. Just enjoying the moment.
@80sOPC said:
I’m not following your logic. If someone collects raw, then by your logic they can purchase similar cards at 50% of the cost of same card graded. So then selling at the same 50% decrease in a decade doesn’t result in a loss.
And following same train of thought, if you buy from one of the sellers that doesn't get a premium - your 50% off scenario- and sell through the sellers that get do, your upside is fantastic.
But really who cares, collect what you like, buy good cards and have fun. Not everyone wants to play the grading game or have to store bulky slabs.
Here's the logic. Some collectors are purchasing raw vintage cards for much more than they could buy the same card in a PSA 8 holder. The card they are buying would most likely receive a 7 or 8 if submitted to PSA. That makes no sense. That is the argument.
Comments
The seller of the Stargell was never mentioned. Its not the sellers fault that PSA made a mistake grading one of his cards. I keep hearing how PSA is hammering recent vintage submissions but continue to see PSA 9's with multiple corner wear. The original topic was regarding a card being over graded which is in line with the comment regarding the Stargell being over graded.
Now I am up to speed - Thanks.
I've sold about 15,000 individual raw cards via GMC over the past two years. I'd say I agree with their raw grade about 75% of the time, with the balance split between too harsh and too generous. That said, I probably only agree with PSA 75% of the time too... I don't think it is possible to have too much higher of a "batting average" - as evidenced by the Guess the Grade posts here. Like with umpires, you don't always agree with the strike zone, but it helps if it is very consistent. GMC seems quite consistent to me - likely why they have so many repeat buyers bidding up the prices. I've been pleased and would recommend.
Bosox1976
Prices are too high for me generally. You can buy a graded one for the same price sometimes, doesn't make sense to me.
If you are someone who consigns raw cards which are then presumed to be accurately graded and sold to a satisfied bidder, it makes perfect sense.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
If you are someone who consigns raw cards which are then presumed to be accurately graded and sold to a satisfied bidder, it makes perfect sense.
It only makes sense if the collector has no intention of ever selling his collection. Otherwise when he decides to sell he will be lucky to receive 50% of what the same card graded by PSA would receive. There's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards. There's hundreds that get high prices for the same cards in PSA holders. Plus buying raw cards leads to over grading, surface wrinkles not shown on the photo, trimmed cards, etc.
Paying $100 for a $40 card makes no sense when you can buy the same card graded by PSA for $100 that's worth $100.
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
Why couldn’t the buyer just resell through GM? He gets better than graded prices in a lot of cases, card for card. I have tons of nice raw cards that won’t go for grading because they will yield more ungraded. I’ll still send in stuff that looks perfect, for everything else, let others play the grading game.
@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
Wow. I guess you got this whole thing all figured out.
Enjoy your cards.
Anyone can figure it out. It's basic math. A PSA 8 sells consistently for $100. A raw in the same condition might get a collector $40 if he's lucky. Like I said basic math. Personally when I sold high value vintage I rarely was offered 50% of the current market value from every dealer at a big show. When I had them graded I received 100% of the current market value.
I'm willing to hear why this thinking is incorrect. If you have any data that shows raw cards usually selling for more or equal to a PSA in the same condition I would love to see it.
@80sOPC said:
Why couldn’t the buyer just resell through GM? He gets better than graded prices in a lot of cases, card for card. I have tons of nice raw cards that won’t go for grading because they will yield more ungraded. I’ll still send in stuff that looks perfect, for everything else, let others play the grading game.
@Yankees70 said:
If you are someone who consigns raw cards which are then presumed to be accurately graded and sold to a satisfied bidder, it makes perfect sense.
It only makes sense if the collector has no intention of ever selling his collection. Otherwise when he decides to sell he will be lucky to receive 50% of what the same card graded by PSA would receive. There's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards. There's hundreds that get high prices for the same cards in PSA holders. Plus buying raw cards leads to over grading, surface wrinkles not shown on the photo, trimmed cards, etc.
To answer your question please read my comments that you responded to. I said there's only a handful of EBAY sellers who consistently receive high prices for raw cards and GM is one of them so yes a collector could have GM sell them.
I’m not following your logic. If someone collects raw, then by your logic they can purchase similar cards at 50% of the cost of same card graded. So then selling at the same 50% decrease in a decade doesn’t result in a loss.
And following same train of thought, if you buy from one of the sellers that doesn't get a premium - your 50% off scenario- and sell through the sellers that get do, your upside is fantastic.
But really who cares, collect what you like, buy good cards and have fun. Not everyone wants to play the grading game or have to store bulky slabs.
You want......data? Basic math? You have data, you don't need me. I've thrived in this hobby/business for long enough to allow it to supplement my income and push me in a positive direction towards my impending full-time retirement. I owe a lot to the people who have provided their input and expertise along the way, including members of this forum. Taking time to listen and learn requires patience, which applies when you put out your hard earned cash for cards. Knowledge is power.
Here's my theory: Play hunches. That theory has been my wingman, sidekick and best buddy for decades. We still get along just great. Enjoy your cards.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
I am always looking at "nm-mt" Killebrew cards in GM's auctions.
Have bid on many, but am always outbid.
Won my first auction last night. Surprised that I did. $51.00 + shipping.
Wondering if you guys like this card at this price.
I don't know if the price is good but I always loved that photo. I think it's the coolest HK and one of the best card photos of all time.
Congratulations on that. Plus, I just love the 72 set.
Centering looks great. side borders look a little iffy, but maybe that's just the pic. can't tell.
I think that Killebrew is likely a nice PSA 8 due to the vertical centering. It is 65/35, so borderline according to their standards, but I personally don’t think it would be a 9. If that is the case, you paid right around the PSA 8 value.
Incidentally, $51 for #51 🙂
I'd agree the Killebrew is likely a PSA 8. Very nice card!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Here's the logic. Some collectors are purchasing raw vintage cards for much more than they could buy the same card in a PSA 8 holder. The card they are buying would most likely receive a 7 or 8 if submitted to PSA. That makes no sense. That is the argument.
Translation - I have no data to support my position.
Nice card. If submitted to PSA you are looking at a 7/8.
Dude. Please. Let it go. I have absolutely NO intention of going tête-à-tête with you.
Enjoy your cards.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
Come down Francis. I'm not taking anything you say personal. Just enjoying the moment.
Huge if true.
It's basic math. The entire market abides by it.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
I thought you said to let this go? If not we can continue.
Can't we all just get along? LOL!!
Ask Francis.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.