New to me: Bullion seller cancels sale tells buyer to issue a wire recall for the money.

Clackamas1

This was posted on Reddit:
"I placed a large order on 5/13 for some gold bullions from SD Bullion and they cancelled the order the next day without explanation, after the wire transfer already cleared. I asked them how I'd get a refund and they told me to file a wire recall with my bank. I did that and I've been waiting for 5 days for the refund, still nothing. It's frustrating that they can't wire my refund back directly, now I have to pay a fee for the recall process. Has anyone had this experience with them?"

Has anyone heard of this way to do a refund?

lcoopie

There must be more to this “story”.

Clackamas1

Here is the link. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gold/comments/1cw8yg0/sd_bullions_refund_process_is_a_hassle/

tincup

Agree there must be more to the story. But if not.... makes one wonder.

derryb

once a wire clears into the receiver's account the wire is completed and the receiver has the funds. Requiring a buyer to jump through the hoops of a recall at this point is a strong indicator that the seller is having money problems.

It is uncommon for a bullion dealer to have money problems when PMs are gaining. Likely the dealer can sell the sold merchandise for more and thus cancelled the sale. If this is the case the seller should have provided instant refund. I would not deal with SD.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

@derryb said:
once a wire clears into the receiver's account the wire is completed and the receiver has the funds. Requiring a buyer to jump through the hoops of a recall at this point is a strong indicator that the seller is having money problems.

I believe derryb has correctly identified the problem.

jmski52

Requiring a buyer to jump through the hoops of a recall at this point is a strong indicator that the seller is having money problems.

I believe derryb has correctly identified the problem.

I agree. When NW Territorial Mint (Ross Hansen) was giving me a runaround on delivery, or when Hannes Tulving’s group couldn’t get their act together and shipped a larger “bag” than what I’d ordered - in both instances, I knew that things were deteriorating.

I’d call this a major red flag for SD Bullion - although I would still seek more verification that the story is fair, and accurate. Maybe I’d call the company for their comment.

derryb

I reached out to SD for their side of the story. They have the right to defend themselves, if they can.

@Clackamas1 said:

Has anyone heard of this way to do a refund?

Once wire funds have cleared into receiver's account any refund should be promptly processed.

stevek

I've always been under the impression that wire transfers were irreversible.

I didn't even know that a "wire recall" was possible. My guess would be it would have to occur within minutes, mainly to account for simply a transactional amount error from the sender.

Once that money hits the receiver's bank account, I'm not sure there's anything your bank can do, unless the receiver complies with their request to send the money back.

You may want to check out your bank's website for their rules on wire transfers. Sometimes if not often, a bank teller could provide incorrect information about the peculiarities on a situation such as this, especially the bleak possibility of getting your money bank from a corrupt seller.

Good luck!

derryb

There are third party (for a fee) recovery agencies that will handle the "recall" process. I'm sure it involves time and effort (money).

Clackamas1

@stevek said:
I've always been under the impression that wire transfers were irreversible.

I didn't even know that a "wire recall" was possible. My guess would be it would have to occur within minutes, mainly to account for simply a transactional amount error from the sender.

Once that money hits the receiver's bank account, I'm not sure there's anything your bank can do, unless the receiver complies with their request to send the money back.

You may want to check out your bank's website for their rules on wire transfers. Sometimes if not often, a bank teller could provide incorrect information about the peculiarities on a situation such as this, especially the bleak possibility of getting your money bank from a corrupt seller.

Good luck!

It is not me, some rando on Reddit that posted it It seemed odd and a bullion dealer so I cross posted it.

stevek

@Clackamas1 said:

@stevek said:
I've always been under the impression that wire transfers were irreversible.

I didn't even know that a "wire recall" was possible. My guess would be it would have to occur within minutes, mainly to account for simply a transactional amount error from the sender.

Once that money hits the receiver's bank account, I'm not sure there's anything your bank can do, unless the receiver complies with their request to send the money back.

You may want to check out your bank's website for their rules on wire transfers. Sometimes if not often, a bank teller could provide incorrect information about the peculiarities on a situation such as this, especially the bleak possibility of getting your money bank from a corrupt seller.

Good luck!

It is not me, some rando on Reddit that posted it It seemed odd and a bullion dealer so I cross posted it.

I'm glad that it wasn't you.

I like Reddit and post on there occasionally about different topics. Always nice of good folks out there to warn others about various situations and possible corrupt sellers.

That being said, there also can be trolls on Reddit who post anything for whatever reason.

stevek

@derryb said:
There are third party (for a fee) recovery agencies that will handle the "recall" process. I'm sure it involves time and effort (money).

Sounds like basically a collection agency. But perhaps they charge a bit more for the title of "recovery" agency. LOL

jmski52

If SD Bullion cancelled an order that they had already confirmed to the buyer, they should be expected to hear any costs associated with the cancellation.

Any legitimate enterprise should do that, but as tincup suggests, we may not be privy to the whole story.

I hope that derryb gets a response from the company.

jdimmick

Found out something else today regarding orders. One of the firms we ship too informed me today that several of the companies that have been doing business for years with one another are not honoring the coc status, Correct me if I have the term incorrect, as I dont use it. Basically, its where firm calls in bullion orders to sale to another, company sends out check at basically the same time the goods are shipped. Now , many firms are waiting for the goods to actually arrive, process, then issue /send out check. With many orders going by way of registered mail , it can slow down process susbstantially.

Clackamas1

@jdimmick said:
Found out something else today regarding orders. One of the firms we ship too informed me today that several of the companies that have been doing business for years with one another are not honoring the coc status, Correct me if I have the term incorrect, as I dont use it. Basically, its where firm calls in bullion orders to sale to another, company sends out check at basically the same time the goods are shipped. Now , many firms are waiting for the goods to actually arrive, process, then issue /send out check. With many orders going by way of registered mail , it can slow down process susbstantially.

Do you think this is indicative of a shortness of physical?

MsMorrisine

yeah. good question is why

derryb

@jmski52 said:
If SD Bullion cancelled an order that they had already confirmed to the buyer, they should be expected to hear any costs associated with the cancellation.

Any legitimate enterprise should do that, but as tincup suggests, we may not be privy to the whole story.

I hope that derryb gets a response from the company.

he did not

doubleeagle07

Most of these bullion dealers have fine print on their website or when you checkout that says they can cancel the sale at any time for any reason or for price fluctuactions and when you buy from them you agree to those terms. Not suprised at all they did what they did.

Clackamas1

@doubleeagle07 said:
Not suprised at all they did what they did.

The oddity is not sale cancel it is the method of refund that is weird. They basically have the money and could simply wire it back. Instead they make the buyer go through a huge hassle. They are either dicks or broke.

mbogoman

@Clackamas1 said:

@doubleeagle07 said:
Not suprised at all they did what they did.

The oddity is not sale cancel it is the method of refund that is weird. They basically have the money and could simply wire it back. Instead they make the buyer go through a huge hassle. They are either dicks or broke.

Or both.

jmski52

This kind of behavior seems to indicate that they are stalling for time while trying to get into a stronger cash position (which should be second nature to a bullion dealer - for the inevitable eventuality of a market downturn).

It seems to indicate that their ability to hedge the market is either non-existent or poorly-run.

Most of these bullion dealers have fine print on their website or when you checkout that says they can cancel the sale at any time for any reason or for price fluctuactions and when you buy from them you agree to those terms. Not suprised at all they did what they did.

The message is "we make YOU pay for our mistakes."

The first time a bullion dealer does that to me (or anyone else) with no explanation or apology - it should be absolutely the LAST time.

johnny9434

did this company have it posed on their website? i know other companies do that as well
me thinks there trying to save some money, fwiw

Clackamas1

@johnny9434 said:
did this company have it posed on their website? i know other companies do that as well
me thinks there trying to save some money, fwiw

I don't know, this was posted on the Gold subreddit and I cross posted it here.

tincup

Not a good thing.... to lose some trust with your customers. The customer should not have to fight / jump through hoops to get their money back, for an issue or action caused by the seller. Good to know.... I have done business with the business before, but had no issues such as this. Could affect my desire to do any future business.

tincup

And... would certainly be good to hear the company's side to this. So far no one has heard anything? So... so far, it is a 'third person' narrative with no proof. But.... still makes one think.

derryb

@tincup said:
And... would certainly be good to hear the company's side to this. So far no one has heard anything? So... so far, it is a 'third person' narrative with no proof. But.... still makes on think.

I emailed them a link to this discussion when it was first posted and asked for their side of the story. No response yet

Crusty

If they don’t respond… I won’t buy from them after hearing this. There are way too many bullion shops out there to put up with this. If it happened to someone else it could happen to me. Total bullshit to cancel an order after the customer paid, because the price swung up. Now the customer is screwed and has to buy elsewhere for more money. The company needs to take it on the chin and suck it up. Certainly don’t make the customer jump through hoops to get a refund.