Peru 2 Reales Ferdinand nearing completion

SimonW

Peru 2 Reales Ferdinand Issues

Let me tell you, first, about the goals of this set.
1. Assemble all dates. Any condition necessary, but focus on getting it done. (89% complete currently)
2. Assemble all dates, problem free. Certified. (89% complete currently.)
3. Assemble all dates XF or better, problem free. (11% complete currently.)

My observation is that the most encountered grade in problem free condition is low VF. Most encountered grade is VG with hole or other significant damage. Most have been cleaned at some point, partly because Spain still seems to like cleaning coins, almost every coin I’ve bought from a private seller in Spain was cleaned.

1752-J. None yet, this is the one I’m missing. They’re tough. not impossible, but it might take some time. I do have the 1752 issues for the 1/2R and the 1R, neither is problem free. Someday…

Graded Census: 4

NGC: XF, FDet, VFdet, XF details
PCGS: 0

1753-J
PCGS VF25, variety L2-53a
Assayer- José Rodríguez Carasa
Mintage-unknown

Graded Census: 9
NGC: VG, VF, 3-VFdet, 2-AUdet
PCGS: VF25, XF40

Comments: Great patina, something odd going on above the crown on the pillar side. Either minor damage or a flan defect. The rims on this one are particularly strong for the grade, the crown is weakly struck.

1754-JD, variety L2-54
PCGS VF30
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and Domingo Eyzaguirre
Mintage-unknown

Graded Census: 4
NGC: AU50, AU53
PCGS: VF30, AU55

Comments: Domingo was an assayer for just the one year it looks like. Sounds like he just wasn’t cutting it 😂. I’m actually really curious what happened. A nice looking piece, quite original looking. Good strike, good details for the grade.

1755-JM
PCGS VF20
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and
Manuel Iglesias
Mintage-unknown

Graded Census: 5
NGC: 2-XFdet
PCGS: 2-VF, XF

Comments: this is the coin that started it all. Bought this for like $20 back in 2010. I think is just about the most wholesome coin you can buy at the grade level.

1756-JM
PCGS VG10
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and
Manuel Iglesias
Mintage-114,584

Graded Census: 3
NGC: AUdet
PCGS: VG10, AU55

Comments: weird strike. The central devices on the obverse are VF details, but the rims are terrible. It seems to me that the dies may have deformed and the resulting strike wore unevenly. Weird pic also. The white balance makes it look odd. Looks better in hand. This is one of the tougher Ferdinand issues.

1757-JM, variety L2-57b
PCGS VF35
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and
Manuel Iglesias
Mintage-252,284

Graded Census: 10
NGC: 2-VF, XF45, AU55, MS61, VFdet, XFdet
PCGS: VF30, 2-VF35

Comments: solid coin, probably dipped at one point. Great details, XF wouldn’t be out of the question. White balance is off on this one, looks more natural on hand.

1758, JM, variety L2-58b
NGC VF30
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and
Manuel Iglesias
Mintage-271,082

Graded Census: 7
NGC: F, 2-VF, AU58, MS62, VFdet
PCGS: MS63

Comments: I think the darkness holds
This one back in grade, to me it’s an XF all day long. As original a patina as they get.

1759, JM, variety L2-59
PCGS XF40
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and
Manuel Iglesias
Mintage-144,986

Graded Census: 11
NGC: VF, MS63, 2-VFdet, 2-XFdet, AUdet
PCGS: VF35, XF40, AU55, MS63

Comments: I like this one, some colors on the reverse. Weak strike near the bottom by the date. I’ve seen it on other pieces of this variety. Seemingly a normal thing for this die pair.

1760, JM, variety L2-60
PCGS VF25
Assayers-José Rodríguez Carasa and
Manuel Iglesias
Mintage- 167,450

Graded Census: 4
NGC: VF, 2-VFdet
PCGS: VF

Comments: great coin, a little generous with the grade maybe. This is actually a posthumous coin, since Ferdinand passed away in 1759, but since news didn’t reach the new world for a while, we have some 1760 coins with Ferdinand and some with Carlos. As far as I can tell this one seems to be tied with the highest grades out there. Certainly there’s more that haven’t hit the certification companies, but it’s a tougher one to find.

1761 NGG VF

TheGoonies1985

You are a brave man these sets are not easy at all congrats on your progression!!! Tackling more than one denomination and country (1/2 to 4 reales Peru & Guatemala) is on a whole other level. Hope you land that 1752 best of luck!!!

TheGoonies1985

What other series/denominations to you collect from Peru & Guatemala?

JohnnyCache

Congratulations you have a wonderful set. Your progress to date is nothing short of impressive.
Thank you for sharing your experiences and observations with us, it makes it even more enjoyable as a spectator to be able to have a sense, from your perspective, of what it was like to build the set such as this.

I know this probably goes without saying, but so there is no doubts, please keep us updated as you progress through those final percentages or when/if you should upgrade a coin.

Very impressive Simon, it really demonstrates both a great deal of passion and perseverance, not to mention knowledge, to accomplish what you've done to date.

All the Best to you!

TheGoonies1985

I know this is a topic on 2 reales but I can't be the only one that would like to see both your 1752's. Please share images if you do not mind.

SimonW

@JohnnyCache said:
Congratulations you have a wonderful set. Your progress to date is nothing short of impressive.
Thank you for sharing your experiences and observations with us, it makes it even more enjoyable as a spectator to be able to have a sense, from your perspective, of what it was like to build the set such as this.

I know this probably goes without saying, but so there is no doubts, please keep us updated as you progress through those final percentages or when/if you should upgrade a coin.

Very impressive Simon, it really demonstrates both a great deal of passion and perseverance, not to mention knowledge, to accomplish what you've done to date.

All the Best to you!

Thank you @JohnnyCache for such a wonderful and kind response. I will certainly do just that. My 2R set was struggling until quite recently, I bought four of these in a recent auction, otherwise I’d be much farther away in my goals. When it rains it pours!

SimonW

@PillarDollarCollector said:
You are a brave man these sets are not easy at all congrats on your progression!!! Tackling more than one denomination and country (1/2 to 4 reales Peru & Guatemala) is on a whole other level. Hope you land that 1752 best of luck!!!

They’re tough to find, no doubt. I’ve got a type set of all the major mints (no Santiago or Columbia) and I’m doing all the minors for Peru, Bolivia and perhaps someday Guatemala. I was more focused on Guatemala, but now I think I’ll stick to the 1R and 2R coins, slowly as they show up. Sometimes they just go too high for my comfort, pricewise. If I don’t finish the sets, I won’t be heartbroken.

I’ll post the other denominations sometime soon, you’ll see the 1752 coins I have soon enough. They’re not stunners, both being problem coins.

SimonW

Certified census info added

Eddi

Simon,
That is a very nice set of Fernando VI Lima 2Rs. I don t think I have ever seen anyone trying to assemble one.
I looked up the 1752 in the Aureo&Calico Archives and only 3 pieces showed up, all sold at least 13 years ago and before, none after that. Scarce coin indeed.

Do you participate or look at the Peruvian Numismatic groups in Facebook? There are a number of them, mostly buy & sell, but there are probably people there you can interact with.

TheGoonies1985

Do you own any of the 1761-1772 dates of the 2 reales series will you be posting them as well? 1766-1769 are tough coins. I imagine you do own some since you stated you are 89% complete.

TheGoonies1985

Has anyone here ever seen a 1751 Peru 2 real I know Brad Yonaka book does not show one or say for certain one exists.

ELuis

This is the only date on the Standard Catalog of World Coins:

ELuis

Great job Sir, kudos for what you have accomplished so far and all the luck!.

TheGoonies1985

@ELuis said:
This is the only date on the Standard Catalog of World Coins:

That is a very nice looking 1752. Wonder what they would cost these days that was 18 years ago. Maybe double or pretty much the same price since it is not a widely collected series? I ask since I have not been around that long.

Clio

Really great set! I am a big fan. I love reading about users experience in collecting sets like these and I am especially fond of the 2 reales denomination.

SimonW

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Do you own any of the 1761-1772 dates of the 2 reales series will you be posting them as well? 1766-1769 are tough coins. I imagine you do own some since you stated you are 89% complete.

I do have some of the Carlos dates, but I’m not as far along as the Ferdinand dates. 1761, 1762, 1764, 1766 (that PCGS doesn’t seem to like) 1767, 1770, 1772. Those are the ones I currently have. I also have a 1769 but it has a hole.

I really don't know what a 1752 would sell for, highly dependant on condition. I haven't ever seen one for sale. The XF I'm aware of may or may not be the one pictured in Heritage. I'm thinking it may be the XF details coin listed in the NGC census. It may be expertly plugged. If you notice the coloration is funky near the top, and the rim bulges out right at the spot someone might put a hole? The design looks a little funny on the shield side too.

SimonW

@Clio said:
Really great set! I am a big fan. I love reading about users experience in collecting sets like these and I am especially fond of the 2 reales denomination.

Thanks Clio!

TheGoonies1985

@SimonW said:

@PillarDollarCollector said:
Do you own any of the 1761-1772 dates of the 2 reales series will you be posting them as well? 1766-1769 are tough coins. I imagine you do own some since you stated you are 89% complete.

I do have some of the Carlos dates, but I’m not as far along as the Ferdinand dates. 1761, 1762, 1764, 1766 (that PCGS doesn’t seem to like) 1767, 1770, 1772. Those are the ones I currently have. I also have a 1769 but it has a hole.

I really don't know what a 1752 would sell for, highly dependant on condition. I haven't ever seen one for sale. The XF I'm aware of may or may not be the one pictured in Heritage. I'm thinking it may be the XF details coin listed in the NGC census. It may be expertly plugged. If you notice the coloration is funky near the top, and the rim bulges out right at the spot someone might put a hole? The design looks a little funny on the shield side too.

I would say you are doing very well. 1766-1767-1769 are tough tough coins. If you have some time I am sure people here would like to see them if you can post them. I mean all the ones you have yet to post.

SimonW

Here are my Carlos pieces. I also have a 1769 with a hole and a 1762 that's at PCGS, I don't have images of them at the moment.

ELuis

@SimonW said:
Here are my Carlos pieces. I also have a 1769 with a hole and a 1762 that's at PCGS, I don't have images of them at the moment.

Nice set! - Are they all from auctions? or do you get some raw? plus/minus how long has it taken to get to this phase?

i only have one Lima 1/2R and will give it a try to get a 1R and 2R - Have seen the 1R 1772 in a VF+ but with a problem on one of the columns, have seen some 2R all in similar conditions as your samples here, have seen also on Heritage some of 2R with a green button where appears that you can make an offer to the owner, some MS63 in around 2K+,...

TheGoonies1985

Congrats on such beautiful coins from a tough series!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

SimonW

@ELuis

I bought my first one in 2010, Raw. I didn't actively pursue them as my main focus until three years ago, or thereabouts. I've been going pretty hard since. Probably half were already certified and I bought them at auction, the other half were RAW that I had to get certified. This set is an outlier though. I certified nearly all of my 1/2, 1R and 4R coins. Very few of them were certified already.

WCC

Just returned from a trip but wanted to concur with other posts here.

Plus00Vltra

The "V" punch is broken on the bottom of the Vs on the 1761, 1764, and 1770, but not on the 1767 or 1772.
The 6 on the 1767 is huge(!) compared to the 7s. Gotta go check Yonaka and see if this is a recognized variety...

Plus00Vltra

This makes a great photo reference set. Thanks SimonW.

Eddi

This 1764 is the only Lima 2R in my collection, with crossed "M" in the assayers mark, a scarce variety according to the catalog I have.

SimonW

@Plus00Vltra said:
The "V" punch is broken on the bottom of the Vs on the 1761, 1764, and 1770, but not on the 1767 or 1772.
The 6 on the 1767 is huge(!) compared to the 7s. Gotta go check Yonaka and see if this is a recognized variety...

Something I hadn’t noticed. Thanks

@Eddi that’s nicer than the one I have! A great piece!

SimonW

I bought the first coin on eBay pretty recently, it replaces a VG10 that I have. The new one is likely a mid-VF, I sent it off to PCGS…as luck would have it, the second (or third if you’re counting the original one listed here) coin showed up at auction and I ended up getting that one too. I’m thinking it’s a nice XF.

Contrary to what you might think, these are quite uncommon. WCC has said that it’s probably the rarest Ferdinand after the 1752. I’m inclined to agree with him. I may sell off the duplicates and keep the XF coin, but it wouldn’t offend me to just keep them all.

---

scubafuel

@SimonW thanks for sharing your newps! This is such a cool set. I’ve been keeping an eye out for a 1752 for you, but no luck yet.

ELuis

@SimonW
So if one sees any of these 2R raw, buy it and do not expect to find them in a great condition... If one shows up on my searches will do.

Great progress Sir, keep on doing a good job!.

TheGoonies1985

@SimonW said:
I bought the first coin on eBay pretty recently, it replaces a VG10 that I have. The new one is likely a mid-VF, I sent it off to PCGS…as luck would have it, the second (or third if you’re counting the original one listed here) coin showed up at auction and I ended up getting that one too. I’m thinking it’s a nice XF.

Contrary to what you might think, these are quite uncommon. WCC has said that it’s probably the rarest Ferdinand after the 1752. I’m inclined to agree with him. I may sell off the duplicates and keep the XF coin, but it wouldn’t offend me to just keep them all.

I would keep both they are not the same varieties. Dots before R and FRD and the other is cinquefoils.

TheGoonies1985

@ELuis said:
@SimonW
So if one sees any of these 2R raw, buy it and do not expect to find them in a great condition... If one shows up on my searches will do.

Great progress Sir, keep on doing a good job!.

With Peru/Guatemala minors it is best to buy what you can when you can and hope one day to find better. That day may come or it may very well not.

SimonW

@scubafuel said:
@SimonW thanks for sharing your newps! This is such a cool set. I’ve been keeping an eye out for a 1752 for you, but no luck yet.

I REALLY hope you’re successful in you quest! 😁 That sounds like a win-win! I’ll even provide a finder’s fee!

TheGoonies1985

Hope you land that 1752 2R SimonW it will be a real challenge with only 208 minted per Yonaka.

ELuis

@SimonW
I think that I count 30 2R's. Maybe there are also some varieties, how many do you have?
What years are still missing?

KM#53 2 REALES
1752/1 LM J
1752 LM J
1753/2 LM J FED
1753 LM J FRD
1754 LM JD
1755 LM JD
1755 LM JM
1756 LM JM
1757/6 LM JM
1757 LM JM
1757 LM J(M)
1758 LM JM
1759 LM JM
1760/50 LM JM
1760 LM JM

KM#62 2 REALES
1760 LM JM
1761 LM JM
1762 LM JM
1763 LM JM
1764 LM JM
1765 LM JM
1766/5 LM JM
1766 LM JM
1767 LM JM
1768/6 LM JM Rare
1768 LM JM
1769 LM JM
1770 LM JM
1771 LM JM
1772 LM JM

TheGoonies1985

ELuis you need to buy a copy of Brad Yonaka's book he does sell them as PDF's as well for much cheaper. PM me if you want his e-mail contact info. PDF is about 15$-20$ vs 90$ or more for his book.

It is well worth the money.

ELuis

@TheGoonies1985 said:
ELuis you need to buy a copy of Brad Yonaka's book he does sell them as PDF's as well for much cheaper. PM me if you want his e-mail contact info. PDF is about 15$-20$ vs 90$ or more for his book.

It is well worth the money.

Thank you, for now I am good.

I posted that list of 2R as reference and to have an idea maybe how many 2R he is missing to complete his task. Just curiosity.

And yes, on my list of to-do's there is at least one 2R Pillar Type from Lima to own.

SimonW

@ELuis

To have one of each date I would need the following:

1752
1763
1765
1766 (I actually have one, but PCGS says it’s fake, which I seriously doubt.)
1768
1769 (have one that’s holed, but that’ll need to be replaced for sure.)
1771

So 5 if we’re being technical, 7 if we’re replacing those two. For me to stop collecting them entirely though they all need to be XF or above. (I have only two of those 😂.)

ELuis

@SimonW
Thanks!

Not bad but as we know these do not show up too often.

I have seen several 2R from Lima, but all holed, on my old or recent searches, I only have for the pillar type one 1/2R with an overdate, that I have posted here. I am not for the series, but it can be good at least to own one of each 1/2R - 1R - 2R - 4R.

WCC

I'm interested in buying major varieties, subject to condition and price. "Major" in this instance being JD and JM assayers for the 1755 and FRD VI and Charles III for the 1760.

I have no interest in any others. I buy duplicates, but not because it is a variety.

SimonW

@WCC said:
I'm interested in buying major varieties, subject to condition and price. "Major" in this instance being JD and JM assayers for the 1755 and FRD VI and Charles III for the 1760.

I have no interest in any others. I buy duplicates, but not because it is a variety.

Yeah, kinda how I’ve been doing it. Sometimes I’ll keep one if it’s a new variety, it’s kinda cool to have the only one, but collecting dates is difficult, getting all the varieties is downright crazy! 🤪

SimonW

Updated pair I have to add to the set, Carlos dates. I’ll have to update the original post.

TheGoonies1985

Great looking coins SimonW!!!