Raw Sacagawea mule sells for $2,499!

Zoins

Another mule is sold!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/355652703138

IkesT

MWallace

Someone's going to be disappointed.

OAKSTAR

I see where it says Sacagawea but the seller doesn't even post a picture of a Sacagawea and still sells it! 🤣

jt88

It is worth to try I believe. You can always return it if it is not genuine.

BStrauss3

It's made on a lathe - you can see the cut into the rim.

jt88

You might be correct. It only showed one side of the coin not both sides.

1madman

I remember there was an ebay seller of these “copies” for around $20 each. Wish I would have bought a pile of them as they are probably valuable novelties at this point.

rte592

A fool and his money...something something something.

BLUEJAYWAY

Someone got the drop on someone.

lcutler

The buyer posted on one of the coin forums, forget which one. Other members convinced him it is fake and he was going to try to get his money back.

Zoins

@lcutler said:
The buyer posted on one of the coin forums, forget which one. Other members convinced him it is fake and he was going to try to get his money back.

Good to know. He should be made whole if he paid with PayPal. The auction closed on April 26, so I'm glad he found out early.

lcutler

Hard to fathom someone spending that kind of money, without knowledge on the item, from someone with 0 feedback on ebay!

Greenstang

Here is a link to the buyer. Didn't seem too happy that it is an altered coin.
It's beyond me how someone wold think that a coin that is nickel on one side and brass on the other
would think it was genuine, even if they were inexperienced in coin collecting.
https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/433489-what-have-i-done-is-this-a-mule-110-obverse-or-am-is-person_too_unaware_of_social_graces/

Zoins

@Greenstang said:
Here is a link to the buyer. Didn't seem too happy.
https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/433489-what-have-i-done-is-this-a-mule-110-obverse-or-am-is-person_too_unaware_of_social_graces/

At least they posted and got feedback, which is a huge first step.

This also has a photo of the reverse which I cannot find in the auction listing:

jedm

As a very experienced poster over there said: "More money than knowledge. A baaaaaaaaad combination."

Lakesammman

Sellers ID is a contraction of Sly v. Slick Willi!

JBK

Looks like the treatment of newbies over there is about the same as here, except that no one welcomed him to that forum.

BAJJERFAN

@Zoins said:

@lcutler said:
The buyer posted on one of the coin forums, forget which one. Other members convinced him it is fake and he was going to try to get his money back.

Good to know. He should be made whole if he paid with PayPal. The auction closed on April 26, so I'm glad he found out early.

If PP does make him whole what is the likelihood that they will get all or part of their $2499 back?

Greenstang

"Looks like the treatment of newbies over there is about the same as here, except that no one welcomed him to that forum""
If you read the posts, you will see that member Sandon welcomed him.

jesbroken

I reported it, might help the buyer. Perhaps if enough people report it. Ebay will hold funds until finalized.
Jim

Zoins

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Zoins said:

@lcutler said:
The buyer posted on one of the coin forums, forget which one. Other members convinced him it is fake and he was going to try to get his money back.

Good to know. He should be made whole if he paid with PayPal. The auction closed on April 26, so I'm glad he found out early.

If PP does make him whole what is the likelihood that they will get all or part of their $2499 back?

Whole should mean all of their $2,499.

This is what PP says:

PayPal said:
PayPal’s Buyer Protection program entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Ref: https://www.paypal.com/li/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security#:~:text=PayPal's Buyer Protection program entitles,isn't what you ordered.

Manifest_Destiny

Here's an angle no one considered: The buyer and seller are the same person. The "buyer" is attempting to make a claim against ebay's buyer protection policy and pocket $2500.

JBK

@Greenstang said:
"Looks like the treatment of newbies over there is about the same as here, except that no one welcomed him to that forum""
If you read the posts, you will see that member Sandon welcomed him.

Yes, you are correct. And that member then continued on to give some frank advice on various aspects of this fiasco. He'd fit right in here.

BAJJERFAN

@Zoins said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Zoins said:

@lcutler said:
The buyer posted on one of the coin forums, forget which one. Other members convinced him it is fake and he was going to try to get his money back.

Good to know. He should be made whole if he paid with PayPal. The auction closed on April 26, so I'm glad he found out early.

If PP does make him whole what is the likelihood that they will get all or part of their $2499 back?

Whole should mean all of their $2,499.

This is what PP says:

PayPal said:
PayPal’s Buyer Protection program entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Ref: https://www.paypal.com/li/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security#:~:text=PayPal's Buyer Protection program entitles,isn't what you ordered.

If you receive the item pictured then you've received the item ordered. Does that apply to items received, but are fake, counterfeit, not genuine or SNAD? If I was the seller, I'd be dang sure to ship the item. $4 shipping for a $2500 item seems crazy.

Greenstang

This is the the description from the seller, This is what the customer ordered, not what is in the picture.

"This is a 2000 Sacagawea quarter dollar mule coin that has not been graded. It was minted in Philadelphia and is a proof strike type. The coin has an error, which makes it unique. It is an uncirculated coin and was not certified."

jesbroken

When a seller lists an item as a rare item and names it and you do not receive said item, suchas uncirculated "mule" then the buyer should be able to successfully return it for full credit as an item "SNAD". JMO
BTW, ebay has it's AI on duty. Within half hour of my reporting it as fabricated and no longer a coin, I received this(plus a thank you note first):
Jim

Coin Finder

Nope

BAJJERFAN

@Greenstang said:
This is the the description from the seller, This is what the customer ordered, not what is in the picture.

"This is a 2000 Sacagawea quarter dollar mule coin that has not been graded. It was minted in Philadelphia and is a proof strike type. The coin has an error, which makes it unique. It is an uncirculated coin and was not certified."

I expect that PP might insist that the buyer return it before they just willingly cough up $2500. Hopefully we'll see if they make good.

davewesen

it is also the buyer is also a related account of the seller hoping to snag another bidder. If that is the case, will not pay.

Zoins

Here's another AI in action, ChatGPT!

You
If there a dollar coin is hollowed out so that a quarter can be placed into it so that one side shows a face of the quarter and the other shows the face of the dollar, is this considered a "mule" coin?

ChatGPT
No, the scenario you described would not result in a "mule" coin.

In numismatics, a "mule" coin refers to a coin that is struck using mismatched dies, resulting in a combination of designs on its obverse and reverse sides that were not intended to be paired together by the mint. Mule coins are usually the result of a production error at the mint.

In the scenario you described, where a dollar coin is hollowed out to accommodate a quarter and display its face on one side, while displaying the face of the dollar coin on the other side, it does not involve a minting error or a mismatched die combination. Instead, it is a deliberate modification made to the coin after it has been minted.

While the modified coin may have novelty value or artistic appeal, it would not be classified as a "mule" coin because it does not involve a production error or the use of mismatched dies during the minting process.

Byers

The highest auction record for the Sac $1/ Quarter Mule was set by Great Collections. It realized $194,062.50.

https://minterrornews.com/news-12-11-23-famous-sacagawea-mule-dollar-coin-error-to-be-auctioned-by-greatcollections.html

Zoins

@Byers said:
The highest auction record for the Sac $1/ Quarter Mule was set by Great Collections. It realized $194,062.50.

https://minterrornews.com/news-12-11-23-famous-sacagawea-mule-dollar-coin-error-to-be-auctioned-by-greatcollections.html

Great article Mike! It's nice to have the Great Photo and slab shot, as well as background on this coin together!

Here are both sets of @PhilArnold's photos for a real coin to compare to the seller pics above.

Byers

The highest auction record for the 2001 D Cent/Dime Mule was set by Heritage Auctions. It realized $138k in 2006. They have sold four of them so far!

Here is the 4th one that realized $114k in Jan 2024.

https://minterrornews.com/news-12-5-23-heritage-auctions-is-offering-the-4th-known-2001-d-lincoln-cent-muled-with-a-roosevelt-dime-reverse.html

Zoins

@Byers said:
The highest auction record for the 2001 D Cent/Dime Mule was set by Heritage Auctions. It realized $138k in 2006. They have sold four of them so far!

Here is the 4th one that realized $114k in Jan 2024.

https://minterrornews.com/news-12-5-23-heritage-auctions-is-offering-the-4th-known-2001-d-lincoln-cent-muled-with-a-roosevelt-dime-reverse.html

That's a good article

I like the overall census article as well!

https://minterrornews.com/features-4-14-22-lincoln-dime-mule-census.html

oih82w8

Byers

As always, excellent research on all of your articles for Mint Error News…

And for sharing those articles on this forum.

Thanks John!

Zoins

@Byers said:
As always, excellent research on all of your articles for Mint Error News…

And for sharing those articles on this forum.

Thanks John!

Thanks for the opportunity Mike! It's great to research and write about and share these rare pieces!

Of course, it makes it easier to spot pieces like in the OP as well. Knowledge is Power!

Looks like it may be useful to have a census on these Sac mules!

Zoins

Raw coin for $13,999:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196383147596

Greenstang

That can be removed from eBay for selling a raw coin over $2500.00 whether it is genuine or not.
Can you post the ID number

Zoins

@Greenstang said:
That can be removed from eBay for selling a raw coin over $2500.00 whether it is genuine or not.
Can you post the ID number

Here's the ID number and eBay item URL for the $2,500 OP coin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/355652703138

Here's the link and ID for the $14k coin.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196383147596

The text information for the $2500 coin (item 355652703138) is as follows:

• Title: 2000 sacagawea quarter dollar mule coin not graded
• Description: This is a 2000 Sacagawea quarter dollar mule coin that has not been graded. It was minted in Philadelphia and is a proof strike type. The coin has an error, which makes it unique. It is an uncirculated coin and was not certified.

BStrauss3

@Greenstang said:
That can be removed from eBay for selling a raw coin over $2500.00 whether it is genuine or not.
Can you post the ID number

Except for that the artificial stupid that fleaBay has reviewing reports tends to ignore it. I haven't yet found the magic words to use to get past that.