PCGS Reholder - Why should you have to pay Gold Shield fees twice?
ProofCollection
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I just submitted a Morgan dollar in a PCGS Gold Shield holder to PCGS for reholdering due to a crack in the slab. But rather than the $14 reholder fee, they want to charge $25 (gold shield reholder). I have been discussing with Customer Service that I shouldn't have to pay for gold shield services twice, just a basic reholder.
GOLD SHIELD: Coin is imaged in high resolution, registered, and checked against PCGS’ vast proprietary imaging database. Includes TrueView image and enhanced security with the PCGS Gold Shield icon.
The coin does not need to be imaged or checked again. My position is that basic reholder fees and services should apply: https://www.pcgs.com/services/reholder
After all a) it doesn't cost them any more to print a label with a shield vs without a shield and they can reuse the existing label. All I want is new plastic. b) I don't need or want a new picture. I question if they will even take a new photo. c) If you submit a first strike coin for reholder, I don't believe they make you pay a second First Strike fee (they haven't in the past), why would this be any different? d) why should I theoretically lose the "imaging and security" if I don't pay the gold shield fee just to get new plastic?
I don't understand why the higher fee is necessary, does anyone have any ideas or are they just trying to squeeze customers for more cash?
Edited to add: The coin has a declared value of $1000.
Comments
Squeezing it out dollar by dollar. Maybe volume and profits are down with CAC slabbing and you are filling a void?
They spell it out pretty clearly.
I find the Show Reholder for coins up to $100k have quite a reasonable fee upon reflecting on the Gold Shield Reholder fee.
Because those are their rules...
Generally speaking, PCGS pricing is based on maximum coin value (e.g., regular vs. walkthrough).
A GS reholder has a higher maximum coin value (i.e., $100K vs. $2.5K).
A higher coin value means more 'risk/liability' for PCGS in the event of an issue.
Could the $11 upcharge on the GS reholder be attributable to the increased 'risk/liability' associated with a higher value coin?
To make it more complicated and non-sensical (in my opinion) if you have a coin that is worth less than $2,500 and you want gold shield, you can’t pay $14 and $5 for gold shield. You have to pay $25. So if you had a modern value coin (<$300) and wanted to reholder it with gold shield, it would cost $25 instead of $17+$5 to grade it.
I just updated the main post. My coin's declared value is only $1000 so that should not be a factor here.
You answered a question I've had for awhile and that is why some non-gold shield slabs have Trueviews.
I'd imagine the owner submitted the cracked gold-shield holder and didn't pay the added fee and thus the coin
resides in a regular non-gold shield slab while still retaining its original Trueview.
peacockcoins
In the past I have submitted First Strike coins for reholder and did not have to pay a second First Strike fee. I'm not sure how this is any different but somehow it is.
I have had several coins Trueviewed in-slab, so that could be the case also.
I submitted a bunch of reholders in the $500 range and wanted gold shield and was told I had to pay the higher amount. Definitely not a liability issue. I was told otherwise at the show when I submitted but they held up my order and made me pay the higher amount.
You can add on true view without gold shield. Both are $5 now, but I think the pricing varied historically.
I wasn't aware.
Thanks!
peacockcoins
They will definitely take a new photo, and with the way things are that’s not a good thing.
I agree - it’s annoying. It is what it is though.
Coin Photographer.
Since it already has the TV associated with the Cert number just check the box for the Regular holder.
Ah, just saw the coin is valued at $1000. The rules are the rules. Basically any coin (other than Modern) valued over $300 automatically requires Gold Shield. Regular slab isn’t an option.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
It appears that PCGS did not honor what you were told at the show. I am sorry that this happened to you.
Still sticking with my theory about higher potential values being a justification for a higher cost, at least partially. The GS reholder service comes with a risk level up to $100K.
The fact that someone submits a coin for GS reholder at the low end of the value range is essentially immaterial. This is the case as PCGS offers a set 'menu' of services. And, for the sake of simplicity, it is in their best interest to stick to this 'menu'.
Right, but they already accepted that risk when it was GS holdered the first time.
Here is the rational they gave me. As others have said, it is what it is, but it is very unclear on the form in my opinion.
"Regarding our submission form, I understand your frustrations with the gold shield fee and I see how it can be confusing. I also apologize for any miscommunication that you were told at the NYC show. For reholdering with gold shield it is a flat rate of $25.00 per coin. The reholder fee is only $14 per coin for those coins that have a value of $2500 or less and are not requesting gold shield.
The difference between true view and gold shield is that with True View you can pick and choose what coins you want imaged on the order. With gold shield, the entire order has to get imaged and customers cannot pick and choose which coins they would like to have gold shield on. With that, gold shield includes a PCGS stamped label of added protection to the customer's coins. The shield is reflective/holographic which makes it hard to counterfeit."
It's kind of funny, unless I'm looking at this wrong, why would I care that no one else counterfeits my real coin? I guess from the buyer's perspective if it has a shield that looks legit they can have more confidence in the coin when they buy it, but I've never looked at a PCGS coin in an OGH and had a second thought about the lack of a shield and how much I'd be willing to pay.
PCGS is handling the coin a second time when reholdering. They are responsible for loss, or damage, while the coin is in their possession. So, it is rational for them to charge a larger 'insurance premium' for a level of service with a max value of $100K, as opposed to $2.5K (i.e., a larger potential risk = a larger premium).
Note - In the OP, you asked why the higher fee was necessary. The value differential was just my attempt at a trial balloon. Admittedly, there are other factors which likely account for a larger portion of the $11 upcharge (e.g., the second set of photos, as confirmed by @FlyingAl).
I think everyone understand why they charge more for premium coins, but none of these arguments apply to my $1000 coin. There are two potential liabilities, one is the PCGS guarantee and the other is that they damage or misplace the coin while they have it. PCGS collected any insurance premium for the PCGS guarantee the first time they graded it. This is presumably why the reholder service is cheaper in addition to the fact that it does not need to pass through grading. The other liability is or should be baked into the reholder fee. Whereas they will reholder this $1000 coin without the gold shield for $14 and there is no additional operational liability for putting this $1000 coin in a holder with a label with a shield on it, this point is moot.
I'm not sure @FlyingAl confirmed anything. Yes they should take a photo but I just had a coin that already had an in-slab TV that I had reholdered and specified and paid for a new (out of slab) Trueview and they didn't do it. Could have been oversight or could have been the photographer saw the existing picture and decided he didn't need to take a new one. I have had other experiences with the photo department being lazy, so call me cynical, but I would not expect that they would actually take the photo.
Fun fact: If you submit a coin for gold shield reconsideration and it fails, they definitely will not take an in-slab TV if you don't ask for it, and I've had 50/50 results on whether they will if you do, even though it is a service you have paid for.
All good points. You should never use PCGS again because you don't like their pricing and TOS.
The right answer was always: because those are the terms and the price. They really don't need to justify it to you nor should anyone on this forum be trying to explain it.
Why? ... money, money, money, mon...ey!
Best guess, it likely is.
PCGS presumably includes their 'damage/loss' liability as part of the reholder fee. And the choice is binary (i.e., base, or GS). As far as I can tell, the fee is not adjusted based on actual operational liability (i.e., submitted coin value). If you select the GS level, you pay the presumably higher liability component associated with the higher potential value, regardless of actual value.
Quote: "They will definitely take a new photo ..."
My apologies to @FlyingAl. I took this as confirmation that a second set of photos was part of the GS reholder offering.
Notwithstanding, you are absolutely correct. The fact that it should be done, does not always guarantee that it will be done. Mistakes happen. And since you clearly have more applicable experience here, I will defer to you.
Re - speculating about PCGS pricing.
Apologies to all. A wide range of topics get discussed here. And, PCGS gives us a great deal of leeway. So, I have gotten complacent. I honestly did not realize that this type of theoretical discussion would be considered 'verboten/inappropriate'.
Moving on, @jmlanzaf is right. Despite any speculation here, PCGS has established their pricing, and it is what it is.
From what I have seen, for every gold shield reholder new images are taken.
All of the reholders I’ve had had new images.
Coin Photographer.
I would respectfully disagree that these are the terms. They are not published anywhere. If they were published and clear, there would be no controversy.
Except you overlook the fact that coins under $2500 can be re-holdered GS or not GS and you lose GS status/emblem if you do not pay for it again; however, best I can tell you do not lose First Strike status if you do not pay for it.
I assume that you are correct.
Cannot really add any more value to the discussion. So, I am going to bow out.
Notwithstanding, I do want to thank you. Currently have a few PCGS coins that I want to send in for reholdering. And, I learned a great deal from this thread.
I read the price list as $14 for a reholder of coins valued up to $2,500. $25 for reholder of coins valued up to $100,000 which includes Gold Shield in the new holder. Which is exactly what PCGS did.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
It's right in the pricing. You can pay $14 no GS or $25 gold shield. You want to pay $14 for the GS. It's not an option
If it wasn't clearly communicated so far in this thread, this can be interpreted as $25 for gold shield services which mostly consists of a Trueview. When these services have already been paid for, one would reasonably expect that one could reholder a GS coin and not pay for the GS services but retain the GS status as one would reasonably assume that GS cannot be lost by paying for a base reholder and not getting a new picture. Just as similarly if you reholder a First Strike coin, you do not have to pay the First Strike fee again and you will retain the First Strike status.
You are correct, the fee is unnecessary for the task you are asking to be performed. But two things, PCGS makes the rules and I highly doubt that management cares what anyone thinks about the fee structures. And second you are arguing with the forum's biggest know it all troll of all time
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
True. Even if I disagree with the policies, I would be content if they would publish the details around these policies and that way I could be confident that even though they don't make sense, this is what management has decreed rather than hoping the CS agent I am working with knows and understands the issue at hand (as many of them don't).
Hmmm.... you agree with me and call me names at the same time. Kudos. Your...er...flexibility is exceptional. Maybe I should report this...nah, I'll continue to be the adult in the room.
That ought to teach you !