A “Guess The PCGS Grade” Thread: Take Your Best Shot At Guessing The Grade Of This 1904 USPI Peso
wondercoin
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Here is the pic. with the serial number covered up. Good luck! No cheating please! I want to see the honest range of guesses on this one!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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I'll go with a 66, fwiw (not my area but will try)
Thanks johnny9434!
70 views later… don’t be shy on this one. Tell me your best guess as to the grade.
Wondercoin
Is that a hit above the second A in FILIPINA?
If so I'd guess 66 bumped for appeal.
If it's toning above the A, then maybe 68.
MS 65
nothing under a 67 is a wonder coin, so I'll guess 67+ CAC if they sticker USPI
MS66.
Coin Photographer.
MS67 I love the design of that coin.
65
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Well out of my collecting arena... but I'll say MS67
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Hard to grade with the color, looks like some chatter in the fields so I want to same MS64+ but I doubt you would have it at that level so I’ll guess 66 for color bump. That said the chatter could just be toning, hard to tell
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
58
66 was my first impression, the larger contact hits below the volcano make me want to say 65.
Final answer 65+
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Tough to grade a toned coin from a TV glamour shot but I’ll guess 64.
Edited to add: Nice coin
Cool. Now it’s getting exciting … a 10 point spread from high to low guesses! Keep them coming!
Wondercoin.
The reverse has a great cameo look.
I’ll guess MS65?
Can't believe it to be less than 67, but as wondercoin asked and so many responded 67 I will say 65+. There appears to be a surface erosion under the dot to the left of 1904 and some scratches below the date. If that is a scratch above the "2nd A" in Filipinas lol, then I may be right. Beautiful coin nonetheless, would love to own it as my only Mexican coin, but would not be able to afford it.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
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Looks like a tiny bit of wear on the hair and waist, but could be the strike. Either 58 or it goes high MS. I don’t know these very well.
Stellar look.
I'd also go with MS66+
peacockcoins
While I like the image and the coin in the image, I suspect the image and grade is much like the opening two sentences from A Tale of Two Cities.
I think it is hard to offer a realistic opinion here because the fields are protected by the toning and nice color. Having written what I have thus far, I see it as an MS coin but the grade simply does not capture what we want to see in the image. I see it as a plus regardless of whether it graded 64 or even... God forbid... 63. My grade is 64+
It's okay to take some shots at the messenger and how I ended up where I did.
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Pr67
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The photos don't give a lot of info beyond the color and strength of detail.
Enlarged, it appears to show scattered marks that might indicate circulation. So I am going to go with AU-55 to AU-58.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I considered the possibility that it could be a proof- I decided that it likely was not given the look of the rims. In general- the 1904 was well struck and the quantity struck is quite low. This example does have nice hair detail and well struck features on the eagle's breast and the shield. Even the Volcano and smoke is quite sharp.
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I am in the 58 camp.
Rub on the obverse cheek, breast, thigh, and hand?
Rub on the obverse breast feathers?
I have had a couple of Columbian Half Dollars with that grade and nice toning.
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Difficult to grade coins from a photo. There may be high point rub on the central devices of the pictured coin. Then again maybe not.
With the above said my grade guess, tongue in cheek, is either AU58 or AU66; and if there is no high point rub I guess MS66.
Good morning CU!
6:00 a.m. already here at Singapore Airport. Flying to Tokyo soon and then Tokyo to LAX. So, WiFi may be spotty over the next 24 hours. After I am in CA, I will post the Answer to the grading question and my comments and observations.
Thought some here might be interested in the following that I just wrote up…
The 1904 Mint State Peso (Mintage of just 10,000) was minted and sold in a special U.S. Philippine mint set at the 1904 Worlds fair in St. Louis. Also known as the “St. Louis World's Fair” , this seven-month attraction drew at least 19 million visitors to the city! These mint sets were made by the Mint for Faran Zerbe for the 1904 World's Fair in St.Louis.
Per “Wiki”: “Joseph Farran Zerbe (April 16, 1871 – December 25, 1949) was an American coin collector and dealer who was the president of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) in 1908 and 1909. He served as chief numismatist (person responsible for selling government coins) at the World's Fairs in St. Louis (1904), Portland (1905),[a] and San Francisco (1915).”
At the World’s Fair (and through the Philippine treasury in Manila), about 4,000 Mint State Pesos were sold. But, I believe the remaining 6,000+ coins were all later released into circulation in the Philippines. The Philadelphia Mint also produced 1,355 Proof Pesos in 1904. So, there was a grand total of only 11,355 Pesos in both MS and Proof combined dated 1904! Compare this to the mintage of the key date 1906-S Peso at 201,000. But, only roughly 200-300 or so 1906-S Pesos are believed to still exist in any grade and a specimen in Choice BU (finest known grade) is already a “six figure” coin.
That said, the attraction of collectors to the 1904 MS Peso is the fact that it is, hands down, the low mintage leader of the entire MS Peso series at just 10,000 coins.
Wondercoin.
With the beautiful toning it is just a guess, but silver dollar size coins are very difficult in grades above gem, so that is my guess. MS65. In any case, that is a wonder coin.
65
I see a couple things that could be marks but experience says there's no chatter except on one breast. I want to say MS-68 with the bump for color but will stick with MS-67 anyway.
WiFi be damned, we are going to need a grade soon
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
My guess would be 63+.
The untoned scratch on the obverse at 4 o'clock could be significant. It may be deep.
The stuff at 7 o’clock on the reverse near the rim looks like it may be on the planchet.
If these two marks aren’t as bad as they look, 64 or 65.
PR67 CAM
First, let me say, I like it. It looks very nice.
Second, let me say, I don't know if this is "cheating", as I didn't look up THAT specific coin, but I did look at general info on the 1904 pesos, and I was surprised by what I saw.
So, given what I saw, I am thinking that may only be a MS65. Maybe even hit with a MS64.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Bochiman. Absolutely no cheating by you “brushing up” on your grading skills of USPI Pesos! Later you’ll need to tell us exactly what surprised you with what you saw.
Wondercoin
66
Once you post the grade, I will. It isn't anything earth shattering, but it did surprise me about the grading of these
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
PR64CAM
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
If any of us are still around when he does
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
MS67PL
MS66+ PL. Beautiful coin!
MS64. love the color
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First, the coin is UNC. and is not AU or Proof. So, anyone who guessed the coin was a proof or slightly circulated is wrong. That leaves all the guesses open here of MS63+ - MS68. The answer based upon the PCGS grade is coming in the next 15-20 minutes! I just need to write it up now. STAY TUNED and hold onto your seats!
Wondercoin
Just from these images I would say that it is a strong 65 bumped to all the way to 67 for the color.
VanHalen… the “judges” have accepted your last second guess! Here comes the result!!
Wondercoin
This 1904 Peso looks like it came from an original high grade (Gem+) set that still had in tact all the coins other than the 1/2C and 1C copper coins. The other (4) coins are TrueViewed as follows:
Five Centavos in MS65 (# 49410855)
Ten Centavos in MS67 (# 49410856)
Twenty Centavos in MS66 (# 49410854)
Fifty Centavos in MS66 ( # 49410853)
If you take a look at the other silver coins in the set (the 10C, 20C and 50C), they are all lovely toners just as the Peso is. These other silver coins are all graded MS66 - MS67 by PCGS! Concerning the Peso, I last sold an MS66+ example in 04/21 for $43,200 at Heritage! In today’s market, this lovely toned Peso in an MS67 grade would likely be about a $75,000 coin and in MS67+, the coin would likely be a $100,000 - $125,000 coin! So, what did PCGS grade it?
‘’Graffiti - UNC detail’’. EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO SEE (as no one here saw it), but to the immediate left of the top of the letter “F” on the obverse at about 8:00 someone (maybe 120 years ago?) appears to have lightly carved an arrow in the surface of the coin! DO YOU SEE IT NOW? 😱 😳. DO YOU SEE “THE $100,000 ARROW”? 😭 😭 😭.
This coin is the “poster child” for the adage “one must see the coin in hand to proper grade it”. It took my customer about 10-15 minutes of searching the coin’s surfaces with a glass to even find the Arrow. The coin is in the mail to me and I will also get to see it in person in the next few days.
THANKS FOR SHARING IN THE FUN! I guess everyone that graded the coin MS63-MS68 was equally correct. No one saw the “graffiti”. Thoughts on the PCGS “grade”?
Wondercoin
I saw those marks but did not suspect them to be graffiti as each segment looks to be made a different way.
Definitely agree that for many items “one must see the coin in hand to proper grade it”.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
That’s like going on a first date, you pick her up only to find out her dad will be going along chaperoning.
Except worse 😬
What are you going to do now? What’s Plan B?
‘’What are you going to do now? What’s Plan B?’’
I was going to “ask the audience” for help. Can we narrow it down to two choices please. Audience?
There was a rumor that the great Thomas Edison stopped by the Peso table with a small knife in his hand. Could it have been? 😉
Wondercoin
My first thought was crack it out and send it to CAC maybe they’ll have a different take.
I still don't see it! Looks more like a light staple combined with a little scuff. Doesn't seem likely to be intentional but I'm not an expert.
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I can see a scratch as the reason for a details holder- graffiti in my mind has to have some type of intent. Sadly this looks as more of an accidental stable scar. I thought I would post an image of one of a scratch unc details submission of mine to illustrate the point I am attempting to make.
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