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1944 Mirror Full Brockage Cent Error Coin!

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 28, 2024 12:30PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Wow! Checkout this dual certified 1944 full mirror brockage cent!

Interesting choice of photo layouts with one pair looking at each other and another pair looking outwards. Calling @PhilArnold and @jtlee321 for commentary on how the decisions were made!


Comments

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would prefer PCGS's photo with the obverse on the left and reverse on the right. However, in the holder I'd prefer the reverse, where the error is, facing forward.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is the cover coin on the magazine ‘CAC Rare Coin Market Review’ which is published by Grey Sheet.

    Mint Error News published a news article that CACG was authenticating and certifying mint errors now.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2024 9:01PM

    I think that both versions look nice.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2024 1:43PM

    Nice that it's a cover coin Mike @Byers.

    Do you know if this is the first ever ATS graded error coin?

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Nice that it's a cover coin Mike @Byers.

    Do you know if this is the first ever ATS graded error coin?

    I was told that it was in the first batch that was certified.

    It was likely selected by CACG for the magazine cover since Lincoln Cent mint errors are very popular, and mirror brockage ‘wheat ear’ Lincoln Cents are rare.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ShurkeShurke Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭

    I like the CAC photo because it places the error front and center as the first photo.

    It also looks like Lincoln is about to walk five paces and duel with his clone, which tickles my funny bone.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1943 is unique for the date

    The 1944 is one of 2 known for the date

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2024 4:15PM

    @Byers said:
    The 1943 is unique for the date

    The 1944 is one of 2 known for the date

    Nice info!

    Is the 1943 unique for the composition?

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes it’s the only steel/zinc mirror brockage Lincoln Cent ‘wheat ear’ for 1943.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's the TrueView for the 1943!

    Possibly the only steel/zinc mirror brockage of any year (easier since it's a 1 year type!).

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 9,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Like to see these "Steelie" errors. Nice.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I were laying out an obverse brockage cent for a Collectors Clearinghouse page I would lay it out with the two heads facing each other. Not because it was "right," but just because I personally feel that it would be a better illustration that way. Your mileage may vary.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Wow! Checkout this dual certified 1944 full mirror brockage cent!

    Interesting choice of photo layouts with one pair looking at each other and another pair looking outwards. Calling @PhilArnold and @jtlee321 for commentary on how the decisions were made!


    And now, a tiny quibble.

    Though this is a wonderful error, I would not call it a "full brockage." What happened was that the reverse die cap mushed down around the end of the reverse die and was beaten smooth, with just a raised bulge of bronze in the middle. Then this raised mound was restruck by the obverse die, picking up the central part of the design and legends but missing part of the date and legends because of the way that the mound fell off around the periphery.

    That partial strike then indented the reverse of this coin, forming a "partial brockage from a restruck cap."

    Still a great piece!

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • PhilArnoldPhilArnold Posts: 74 ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Wow! Checkout this dual certified 1944 full mirror brockage cent!

    Interesting choice of photo layouts with one pair looking at each other and another pair looking outwards. Calling @PhilArnold and @jtlee321 for commentary on how the decisions were made!

    I can't recall. I probably just shot it and let the editing team make that call and forgot about it.

    Phil Arnold
    Director of Photography, GreatCollections
    greatcollections.com

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2024 4:26PM

    Both of these ( the steel 1943 and the bronze 1944) are first strike mirror brockages.


    There is an explanation as to why the incuse design (the mirror brockage) is not complete on the 1943 and 1944.

    The mirror brockage was made by a coin that was struck on a split planchet or on a thin planchet. This accounts for the incomplete outer design. The brockage is sharp and clear since it is a first strike mirror brockage.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    The mirror brockage was made by a coin that was struck on a split planchet or on a thin planchet. This accounts for the incomplete outer design. The brockage is sharp and clear since it is a first strike mirror brockage.

    @CaptHenway's explain sounds more plausible to me.

  • SullivanNumismaticsSullivanNumismatics Posts: 842 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2024 5:07PM

    Above is a split before strike cent for reference.

    Having seen the 1944 mirror brockage cent in hand at PCGS, I believe it is a mirror brockage which occurred from either a thin planchet or a split planchet that was struck, failed to be ejected (likely due to it's "thinness" making it harder to be ejected), and then this coin's planchet was fed on top of it, and struck, creating a mirror brockage of the obverse on the coin's reverse.

    It's being struck on a thin/split planchet is why central design elements are distinct and much but not all the design detail can be seen--some is missing because the thin/split planchet was also missing some of the design. The outer design is missing some of the lettering and date, which is typical on struck split planchet cents (which frequently have intermittent letters missing around the outer design, and often the last digit of the date is weak or missing--all of which are true for this coin.)

    If the coin had the full brockage on the coin's obverse side (which would make it a reverse/reverse brockage) (hammer die side), and if the brockage was more "central" and less "spread across the surfaces", and if there was design from the underlying die's design slightly showing through, I'd say that it was a brockage from a die cap, but that's not the case with the coin.

    www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Jon for the detailed explanation on why it was struck on a split planchet that was struck, or on a thin planchet that was struck.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can you show an example struck on a thin planchet with as much ear detail as previous on the brockage?

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2024 6:18PM

    Speaking of first strike mirror brockages…
    This unique set is one of my all time favorites that I handled:

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    My all time favorite mirror brockage:


    Great to see another Byers Collection coin Mike!

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Byers said:
    My all time favorite mirror brockage:


    Great to see another Byers Collection coin Mike!

    Yes. It is very rare to find a gold brockage mint error. WOW, nice.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you ever sell that gold brockage please post the result here.

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks guys!

    The other U.S. gold brockage that I handled was a type 2!! Gold $1:


    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2024 7:43PM

    Civil War Tokens are interesting because there are many full brockages of interesting designs.

    It could be very interesting to build a focused set!


  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That split/thin 1961 cent shows most of IN GOD WE TRUST, all four digits of the date and all of LIBERTY. I think that it supports my theory more than it supports the other theory.

    And, regardless of how they were made, neither the 1943 nor the 1944 shows a complete image in the brockage, which to me would preclude them from being full brockages. I would call them “partial brockages,” but I have no problem with “incomplete brockages.”

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Civil War Tokens are interesting because there are many full brockages of interesting designs.

    It could be very interesting to build a focused set!


    That would be interesting since there are so many Civil War Token brockages.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another first strike mirror brockage is this famous and unique Barber Half:

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here’s another rare Lincoln Cent brockage
    struck during World War ll

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here are images of the edge of the 1943 obverse mirror brockage before it was certified by PCGS.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • SullivanNumismaticsSullivanNumismatics Posts: 842 ✭✭✭✭

    There has always been differing of definitions to an extent (perhaps because the hobby has been in need of a good, well written "encyclopedia of mint errors" for years now), and because there are so many variables on brockages, they tend to get somewhat "lumped together" into categories.

    A good percentage of Full 1st strike brockages, mirror brockages, full brockages (which tend to be used interchangeably) show the characteristic 1st strike aspect, and then also show most or a large percentage of the design, but may or may not show "all the design." Often portions are missing because of being struck on a split/thin planchet, but of course the very best examples are coins struck against fully struck, normal thickness coins, which will show every part of the design on both sides.

    www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s neat that CACG chose this 1944 Lincoln Cent mirror brockage as their cover coin. Mint Errors are a growing segment in numismatics and special pieces receive special attention.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To help with the Pedegree of two of the full Brockages that Mike posted:

    I bought the Brockage barber half from old time dealer Harlan White,of San Diego
    Back in the late 70s early 80s – I paid $1000 for it from him

    The 1874 $1 came from Richard Picker, mid 80s, $3500 for it. I kept that in my personal collection
    For a few decades, before I sold it to Mike - he made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    To help with the Pedegree of two of the full Brockages that Mike posted:

    I bought the Brockage barber half from old time dealer Harlan White,of San Diego
    Back in the late 70s early 80s – I paid $1000 for it from him

    The 1874 $1 came from Richard Picker, mid 80s, $3500 for it. I kept that in my personal collection
    For a few decades, before I sold it to Mike - he made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

    That’s correct Fred.

    You had some AMAZING mint errors in your personal collection that I had to pry off of you with huge offers💲.

    Your:
    Gold mirror brockage Ty 3 Dollar
    Off-Center $20 Liberty 15%
    Walking Lib Half on a steel Cent blank
    And others!

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    To help with the Pedegree of two of the full Brockages that Mike posted:

    I bought the Brockage barber half from old time dealer Harlan White,of San Diego
    Back in the late 70s early 80s – I paid $1000 for it from him

    The 1874 $1 came from Richard Picker, mid 80s, $3500 for it. I kept that in my personal collection
    For a few decades, before I sold it to Mike - he made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

    I remember when Fred had PCGS slab some of his personal mint errors prior to the 1998 Portland ANA.

    PCGS was gearing up to authenticate and certify mint errors.

    His display at his table included the gold mirror brockage and Walking Liberty Half on a steel cent blank.

    He had many others raw in flips in a box in his safe at his office including his off-center $20 Liberty. He would proudly show me these, but they were never for sale.

    It took many years, tons of business, lunches and dinners, to finally convince him to sell these to me.

    Fred had spectacular and amazing mint errors.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    To help with the Pedegree of two of the full Brockages that Mike posted:

    I bought the Brockage barber half from old time dealer Harlan White,of San Diego
    Back in the late 70s early 80s – I paid $1000 for it from him

    The 1874 $1 came from Richard Picker, mid 80s, $3500 for it. I kept that in my personal collection
    For a few decades, before I sold it to Mike - he made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

    I remember when Fred had PCGS slab some of his personal mint errors prior to the 1998 Portland ANA.

    PCGS was gearing up to authenticate and certify mint errors.

    His display at his table included the gold mirror brockage and Walking Liberty Half on a steel cent blank.

    He had many others raw in flips in a box in his safe at his office including his off-center $20 Liberty. He would proudly show me these, but they were never for sale.

    It took many years, tons of business, lunches and dinners, to finally convince him to sell these to me.

    Fred had spectacular and amazing mint errors.

    Back when I used to be able to get to the ANA every year I would always plop myself down at Fred’s table and say “Knock my socks off!” I always left barefoot!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fred always displayed a vast array of mint errors in his showcases…

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perfectly logical.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tom and Mike – thanks for the kind words

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2024 10:23AM

    Speaking of first strike mirror brockages on Lincoln Cents from 1909 thru 1958…

    Here is a WHEAT reverse design mirror brockage AND struck on a silver dime blank!!!

    https://minterrornews.com/features-5-2-24-an-incredible-and-rare-lincoln-cent-wheat-reverse-mirror-brockage-on-a-silver-dime-planchet.html

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    Tom and Mike – thanks for the kind words

    I would still like to know who the gorgeous blond was that was with you at Error-a-Rama '73 in Anaheim. Now she was a real socks-knocker-offer!

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That was my first ex-wife – I’ve had two in my collection.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    Speaking of first strike mirror brockages on Lincoln Cents from 1909 thru 1958…

    Here is a WHEAT reverse design mirror brockage AND struck on a silver dime blank!!!

    https://minterrornews.com/features-5-2-24-an-incredible-and-rare-lincoln-cent-wheat-reverse-mirror-brockage-on-a-silver-dime-planchet.html

    Now you're just showing off.........

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2024 6:17PM

    @FredWeinberg said:
    To help with the Pedegree of two of the full Brockages that Mike posted:

    I bought the Brockage barber half from old time dealer Harlan White,of San Diego
    Back in the late 70s early 80s – I paid $1000 for it from him

    The 1874 $1 came from Richard Picker, mid 80s, $3500 for it. I kept that in my personal collection
    For a few decades, before I sold it to Mike - he made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.

    Fred- I bought the mirror brockage Barber Half from Henry Hilgard along with the (2) mirror brockage Drape Bust Quarters and a mirror brockage Bust Dime.

    The mirror brockage Bust Dime is not unique. The sticker needs to be removed.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2024 6:42PM

    Amazing brockages Mike @Byers! Your archives really are a treasure for the hobby!

    Does any other site have so many top errors???

    The Bust Dime, and Barber Half are amazing, as is the wheatie on dime planchet!

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2024 7:26PM

    @Zoins said:
    Amazing brockages Mike @Byers! Your archives really are a treasure for the hobby!

    Does any other site have so many top errors???

    The Bust Dime, and Barber Half are amazing, as is the wheatie on dime planchet!

    Thanks Zoins!

    As far as a rare coin dealer (not an auction house) having as an extensive archive wth rare AND expensive mint errors and die trials, that were sold by that dealer- no.

    https://mikebyers.com/rarecoins-archives.html

    Obviously Heritage and StacksBowers, and recently Great Collections have an extensive archive of mint error prices realized since they are auction houses…

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.

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