I know these are 2 1999P quarter dollars.....but they are different in a way .../See below for XRF

YQQ

These 2 1999P quarters are at first very similar.
However, the drop test reveals that they are made of different metals.
I have no idea. However, maybe one of them is a fake, maybe from PRoC????
OR were these made of a different metal, perhaps test coins?
The drop test had two very different sounds.
any help is appreciated.
These coins belong to a friend
Thank you all for your input.

I** now had an XRF test done to see what metal it is
please see the image:
It looks like it is a silver quarter.
any help is appreciated. If there were tests done should there be more?
just wondering if there were tests done at the mint with different types of metal ? and this one escaped???????**
I have great doubts that it might be a forgery...Just fo one or a few????? and why in Silver ???**

dcarr

Exposure to high heat will change the internal structure of the metal, relieving the internal stresses, and change the tonal qualities. So I think the top coin was heated to close to its melting point.

NewEnglandRarities

The photos seemed to have flipped since I first saw the post. But, I agree with @dcarr , heat is the reason. So, now looking the bottom coin (the one that looks like there is a break at 3-4k), is heat damaged.

jesbroken

It appears to me the bottom coin suffered damage from a heat source.
Jim

YQQ

Thank you to all for your input, we never thought about heat.
first, the original post had the weight shown in a weight measure other than grams. posted now is in grams.
even if the coin was subjected to high heat, would that so drastically change the weight and the metal properties?
is there any value to any of these two coins?
H

dcarr

@YQQ said:
Thank you to all for your input, we never thought about heat.
first, the original post had the weight shown in a weight measure other than grams. posted now is in grams.
even if the coin was subjected to high heat, would that so drastically change the weight and the metal properties?
is there any value to any of these two coins?
H

.

I hadn't noticed the weights before now.
There is also a possibility that the suspect coin is a home-made casting.
Does it look like there was ever a sprue attached to the edge of it ?

.

emeraldATV

I'm not a tree hugger but in this case..........Ya just gotta do it.
The details remind me of our initial tree when I was a young buck.

JBK

On suspect clad coins the edge is an important factor. Are you able to get photos?

JBK

@emeraldATV said:
I'm not a tree hugger but in this case..........Ya just gotta do it.
The details remind me of our initial tree when I was a young buck.

There is no hugging of the Charter Oak. It is one of the subjects on the state coins that met it's demise after appearing on the coins. New Hampshire's "Old Man of the Mountain" is another.

Not sure if your childhood tree still exists. Maybe it's petrified?

emeraldATV

I don't know about the tree but the land owner could have been with all these kids in their tree with knives.
Come to think of it, we raked that tree's leaves every season. Anyway...
So the second coin is fake ? (which is the coin I was referring to and sry if that was not clear)
Thinking back, I sure was a tree hugger then. One slip up....... was a long way down.

BLUEJAYWAY

I was too far away to hear the sound when you dropped the coins. Can you drop them again? I'm closer to my phone now.😆

Sapyx

A mass loss of over a gram, for a coin that only weighs less than 6 grams, "heat" alone cannot explain - you need to explain where the missing mass went; neither copper nor nickel simply evaporate without melting the coin completely.

If it's a genuine coin, the better explanation for mass loss is "acid damage" or similar corrosion, which explains both the appearance and missing mass. However, again the edge view would be telling, if you get the "oreo-like" appearance of the edge where acid has attacked the copper core more readily than the clad layers, acid would be confirmed. But acid alone cannot explain all the features seen here.

The other option, counterfeiting, also cannot be ruled out.

air4mdc

Looks like a deep strike thru or tooled gouged on the obv filled with solder to me, in addition to quite a bit of wear, whether sanded or polished. The details are flattened on the obverse significantly. It appears environmental damage or exposure to a caustic material is also responsible for the pitting and missing material. Fifteen years of abuse somewhere.

CRHer700

The bottom coin appears to have lost weight, possibly due to acid or salt water. If it is real, then the lost weight will give it a higher "ping" than the standard quarter. I encounter these occasionally in my CRHing, and have done weight and sound tests on more than a few. This seems to be the likely reason for the higher, almost "silverish" noise.

TomB

@JBK said:

@emeraldATV said:
I'm not a tree hugger but in this case..........Ya just gotta do it.
The details remind me of our initial tree when I was a young buck.

There is no hugging of the Charter Oak. It is one of the subjects on the state coins that met it's demise after appearing on the coins. New Hampshire's "Old Man of the Mountain" is another.

Not sure if your childhood tree still exists. Maybe it's petrified?

Connecticut's Charter Oak was blown down in a storm in 1856. I realize the State Quarter series went on for a long time, but not that long!

JBK

@TomB said:

@JBK said:

@emeraldATV said:
I'm not a tree hugger but in this case..........Ya just gotta do it.
The details remind me of our initial tree when I was a young buck.

There is no hugging of the Charter Oak. It is one of the subjects on the state coins that met it's demise after appearing on the coins. New Hampshire's "Old Man of the Mountain" is another.

Not sure if your childhood tree still exists. Maybe it's petrified?

Connecticut's Charter Oak was blown down in a storm in 1856. I realize the State Quarter series went on for a long time, but not that long!

Good to know. Thanks for the correction. I'll have to amend my trivia arsenal.

At least the Old Man of the Mountain in NH collapsed after it appeared on the state quarter. Of that I'm (pretty) sure.

YQQ

Thank you all so far
Here are the rim images. Hopefully this will help.
H

IkesT

@YQQ said:
Thank you all so far
Here are the rim images. Hopefully this will help.

Yes, the images confirm that it is counterfeit.

emeraldATV

"Hold the fort."! ?......
I have here 2 coins (for now) with that same, tree trunk or wet cement look with that unguided penmanship look.
My question is, "This style or look has a rap sheet"? Or, just a brother from a different mother ?





Bytheway @YQQ where you been ? Everything cool ? Watch this ?
When was the war of 1812 ?

YQQ

where have I been???
well, since 1966 in Canada...
It seems that the subject coin might be a forgery? or not?? what is the concensus ?
But why this one 1999 ? and why are there not more known as fakes?
It seems a lot of work for just one item?
I originally posted a very nice one together with the subject coin
Is there any realistic value to it? and perhaps a suggested grade?

crazyhounddog

If you bring a clad coin to its melting temperature then stop the coin will show blisters. Trust me I have buckets full of them. So I don’t think it was heat. Nor will heat add or subtract weight from the coin. If so, where did it go? I’ve gotta believe one of them is a counterfeit.

YQQ

Would anyone recognize it as a CF?
If so. how ? what are the markers?

YQQ

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
I was too far away to hear the sound when you dropped the coins. Can you drop them again? I'm closer to my phone now.😆

well, if you PM me your #, I will let you hear the diff.

Creg

@emeraldATV said:
I don't know about the tree but the land owner could have been with all these kids in their tree with knives.
Come to think of it, we raked that tree's leaves every season. Anyway...
So the second coin is fake ? (which is the coin I was referring to and sry if that was not clear)
Thinking back, I sure was a tree hugger then. One slip up....... was a long way down.

Go out and give that poor tree a hug; hug the stump if you must. Let the fall go, forgive.

Creg

@crazyhounddog said:
…I have buckets full of them.

That impresses me, no matter how you created or compiled that bucket.

CRHer700

@YQQ said:
Would anyone recognize it as a CF?
If so. how ? what are the markers?

I don't believe that this is a counterfeit. I'll see if I can find any coins like this to show.

hummingbird_coins

I have noticed from reading this thread how poorly the Charter Oak on the Connecticut state quarter compares to that on the Connecticut commemorative half dollar. At least they tried to make the Charter Oak on the half dollar look like the real thing, and not just some average-looking tree. It just goes to show the loss of quality associated with modern coinage.

emeraldATV

Go out and give that poor tree a hug; hug the stump if you must. Let the fall go, forgive.

YQQ

old first original post : https://forums.collectors.com/post/editdiscussion/1102873

I now posted a copy of the XRF test done yesterday. It says the quarter is silver.
so, what now? Were there silver quarters made of this series?
what would you do with this item?
I have no idea.
maybe someone could help.
thank you all
H

JBK

I can't access the link you posted but it still looks suspect to me.

I don't recall when the silver proof sets started but you have to havewrong planchet and wrong mint errors going all at once.

My vote is counterfeit, whatever the metal.

davewesen

The coin marketers plated many state quarters with great things like silver, gold, platinum to justifying charging collectors much more than worth. What does an XRF read on silver plated coins?

jonathanb

@davewesen said:
What does an XRF read on silver plated coins?

It reads the surface. Therefore, the OP is not accurate (or at least not complete) when saying that the XRF says the coin is silver.

The XRF says the surface of the coin is silver... Which is exactly where we started in the original post.

Based on all of the info posted so far, this is a plated coin with no numismatic value. It should be spent as pocket change.

IkesT

You spoke with Greg about my coins? The nerve!

pcgsregistrycollector

@IkesT said:
You spoke with Greg about my coins? The nerve!

MsMorrisine

gunning a silver plated quater should show the major components of the clad underneath

example: gunning a steel cent

MsMorrisine

maybe it's some lab created frankenstein that escaped from its home

jmlanzaf

@MsMorrisine said:
gunning a silver plated quater should show the major components of the clad underneath

example: gunning a steel cent

Depends on how thick the plating is. If the plating is thick enough, it will only read the plating. If the coin were silver it would be much heavier. A thick plating might read 97.5% of it's seeing the surface.

MsMorrisine

definitely a counterfeit

Aspie_Rocco

@MsMorrisine said:
gunning a silver plated quater should show the major components of the clad underneath

example: gunning a steel cent

Can you elaborate on what gunning is in this context?

BStrauss3

XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

jmlanzaf

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Aspie_Rocco

@jmlanzaf said:

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Is that what Morrisine was referring to about gunning?

MsMorrisine

2 examples

https://www.amazon.com/Hand-held-Analyzer-Fluorescence-Spectrometer-JITAI9201/dp/B0BWMVJHTK?gQT=2

jmlanzaf

@Aspie_Rocco said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Is that what Morrisine was referring to about gunning?

The ones that coin and jewelry dealers are using are the hand held ones, so "yes".

As for the plating issue, the penetration depth can be a micrometer or so. As a result, for thin plate, you'll see largely the material underneath. For thick plate, I've seen jewelry shoot as 4 karate and I've seen a thickly played coin shoot as 24 karate. For scrap, dealers still tend to scratch or cut before shooting, if there is any question.

For the OPs coin, still seems likely to be an acid treated silver quarter. They were made in silver in 1999 but that coin is light as well as showing some surface roughness. I'm not sure whether the acid can create the surface enhancement of the silver due to selectively oxidizing/dissolving the metals in the alloy. Maybe someone wants to try the experiment: acid etch a silver quarter until you lose a gram of mass. XRF before and after.

Morgan White

@jmlanzaf said:

@Aspie_Rocco said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Is that what Morrisine was referring to about gunning?

The ones that coin and jewelry dealers are using are the hand held ones, so "yes".

As for the plating issue, the penetration fork can be a micrometer or so. As a result, for thin plate, you'll see largely the material underneath. For thick plate, I've seen jewelry shoot as 4 karate and I've seen a thickly played coin shoot as 24 karate. For scrap, dealers still tend to scratch or cut before shooting, if there is any question.

For the OPs coin, still seems likely to be an acid treated silver quarter. They were made in silver in 1999 but that coin is light as well as showing some surface roughness. I'm not sure whether the acid can create the surface enhancement of the silver due to selectively oxidizing/dissolving the metals in the alloy. Maybe someone wants to try the experiment: acid etch a silver quarter until you lose a gram of mass. XRF before and after.

JBK

@jmlanzaf said:

@Aspie_Rocco said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Is that what Morrisine was referring to about gunning?

The ones that coin and jewelry dealers are using are the hand held ones, so "yes".

As for the plating issue, the penetration fork can be a micrometer or so. As a result, for thin plate, you'll see largely the material underneath. For thick plate, I've seen jewelry shoot as 4 karate and I've seen a thickly played coin shoot as 24 karate. For scrap, dealers still tend to scratch or cut before shooting, if there is any question.

For the OPs coin, still seems likely to be an acid treated silver quarter. They were made in silver in 1999 but that coin is light as well as showing some surface roughness. I'm not sure whether the acid can create the surface enhancement of the silver due to selectively oxidizing/dissolving the metals in the alloy. Maybe someone wants to try the experiment: acid etch a silver quarter until you lose a gram of mass. XRF before and after.

In Philly? 🤔

jmlanzaf

@Morgan White said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Aspie_Rocco said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Is that what Morrisine was referring to about gunning?

The ones that coin and jewelry dealers are using are the hand held ones, so "yes".

As for the plating issue, the penetration fork can be a micrometer or so. As a result, for thin plate, you'll see largely the material underneath. For thick plate, I've seen jewelry shoot as 4 karate and I've seen a thickly played coin shoot as 24 karate. For scrap, dealers still tend to scratch or cut before shooting, if there is any question.

For the OPs coin, still seems likely to be an acid treated silver quarter. They were made in silver in 1999 but that coin is light as well as showing some surface roughness. I'm not sure whether the acid can create the surface enhancement of the silver due to selectively oxidizing/dissolving the metals in the alloy. Maybe someone wants to try the experiment: acid etch a silver quarter until you lose a gram of mass. XRF before and after.

Ok. Looks like a P. So maybe not. But your options are:

1. Etched down 1g and then heavily plated in silver.
2. Counterfeit made in silver or silver plated
3. Damaged S that looks like a P
4. Wrong planchet error

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Aspie_Rocco said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@BStrauss3 said:
XRF devices kind of look like a gun...

Only the hand held ones. The desk top units look more like a microwave oven

Is that what Morrisine was referring to about gunning?

The ones that coin and jewelry dealers are using are the hand held ones, so "yes".

As for the plating issue, the penetration fork can be a micrometer or so. As a result, for thin plate, you'll see largely the material underneath. For thick plate, I've seen jewelry shoot as 4 karate and I've seen a thickly played coin shoot as 24 karate. For scrap, dealers still tend to scratch or cut before shooting, if there is any question.

For the OPs coin, still seems likely to be an acid treated silver quarter. They were made in silver in 1999 but that coin is light as well as showing some surface roughness. I'm not sure whether the acid can create the surface enhancement of the silver due to selectively oxidizing/dissolving the metals in the alloy. Maybe someone wants to try the experiment: acid etch a silver quarter until you lose a gram of mass. XRF before and after.

In Philly? 🤔

No. I didn't look that hard at the Mint mark, although it is damaged

IkesT

jmlanzaf

Sit on it

Morgan White