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Seeking help to Identify Latin American Cob

AngryDragonAngryDragon Posts: 77 ✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Unable to match this coin with any of my reference materials. Coin weighs 12 grams which is slightly underweight for a 4 Reales. Composition appears to be silver as it passes the magnet test. Looks like assayer initials S (?).

So far, all indications point to counterfeit, but thought I would ask the experts.

Any insights are appreciated.
Thanks


Comments

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 409 ✭✭✭

    Trying to be Seville assayer R (1620s-60s... this piece of the style of the earlier half of that span).

    Slightly low weight isn't the problem, and forget the magnet... just step back and look at the overall appearance of the shield side. Cast fake.

    *** EDIT: Thought I recognized Serb's sloppy work, and indeed it is. He's been selling each different shaped (bad) casts of the same 5 or 6 coins consistently for the past year and a half. I "think" he bought the model coins from another Serb several years back... that diving pic on this guy's listings is from that original seller, and those coins were genuine.

  • RiveraFamilyCollectRiveraFamilyCollect Posts: 642 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm going to show my ignorance here, but why are these coins always so irregularly shaped? They never seem to be round or square.

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  • AngryDragonAngryDragon Posts: 77 ✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2024 5:09PM

    @realeswatcher said:
    Trying to be Seville assayer R (1620s-60s... this piece of the style of the earlier half of that span).

    Slightly low weight isn't the problem, and forget the magnet... just step back and look at the overall appearance of the shield side. Cast fake.

    *** EDIT: Thought I recognized Serb's sloppy work, and indeed it is. ...

    Thank you @realeswatcher. Owner disclosed that coin was found in a package from the Baltics. That was enough to raise suspicion.

    Thanks for the lesson. I wondered if the mint mark/assayer combination indicated Spain since the letter S did not come up for any of the Americas.

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2024 4:22PM

    S is the mintmark (Seville). R below it is the assayer.

    What I'll say to you is you're going to play with cobs, look at lots of genuine pieces. Once you do, you'll see that this is a one-glance fake.

    ........

    @AngryDragon said:

    Owner disclosed that coin was found in a package from the Baltics. That was enough to raise suspicion.

    As it happens, lots of genuine cobs come out of the Baltics... but you have to know what you're looking at.

    ........

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:
    I'm going to show my ignorance here, but why are these coins always so irregularly shaped? They never seem to be round or square.

    The planchets were hand-cut (via several different methods... but long story short, by hand)... and then hammer-struck.

    Search Google for how cob coins were made or similar language and some good info sites should come up.

  • jgennjgenn Posts: 744 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2024 2:05PM

    These provide some interesting opinions on how the macuquina (aka cob) was made
    :
    https://www.sedwickcoins.com/articles/strap.htm

    https://auction.sedwickcoins.com/Flat-silver-strap-ingot-329-3-grams-for-making-8R-cob-blanks-extremely-rare-from-the-1715-Flee_i12159242

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  • AngryDragonAngryDragon Posts: 77 ✭✭✭

    This just sold. Nice to see what a genuine one looks like

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/spain/spain-philip-iv-cob-4-reales-1621-1665-vf25-ngc-/a/232416-63446.s#

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