@erikthredd said:
No, i never said it was all about the rings. This was in my previous comment to the one you just replied to That's the rub though, when you're an NFL QB if you want to be considered with the greats then you better have some type of playoff resume that can go with the career regular season stats.
You need BOTH so Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or whichever random SB winning QB you want to choose can't say that they did both.
You shouldnt even need to have a playoff resume. You can be a great player on a bad team like Mike Trout, You can also have a good playoff resume like Rivers does have and not ever win it all. Petyton Manning was carried to his 2nd superbowl win, Dilfer won one, Wentz, won one, Flacco won one and so on.
Its a team game, a single person cannot carry a team to winning it all, a team can carry a player though. You can be a great like a Marino. Theres countless players in the NFL, MLB, and NHL that were the best whose teams didnt win that year
What do you want me to say? QBs are held to a high standard these days and you need to win before teams decide to move on from you. Look at Cousins and possibly Dak a year from now, they've both put up good stats over their careers but have given you close to nothing come playoff time.
Imo,these days you need to factor in those stats and playoff wins to be put into that greats category. You can disagree,that's fine and there's really no need to go on with this discourse any longer.
@erikthredd said:
What do you want me to say? QBs are held to a high standard these days and you need to win before teams decide to move on from you. Look at Cousins and possibly Dak a year from now, they've both put up good stats over their careers but have given you close to nothing come playoff time.
Imo,these days you need to factor in those stats and playoff wins to be put into that greats category. You can disagree,that's fine and there's really no need to go on with this discourse any longer.
Holding players to a high standard is fine, just not an unreasonable one of a single player being expected to put a team on their back. Eli isnt a better QB because Samuel dropped that game ending INTin the Superbowl, Allen isnt a worse QB because Diggs dropped what would have likely been a game winning catch, Purdy isnt a better QB because the Lions had an INT literally bounce off their face for a TD. Messi and Ranoldo arent worse players because they didnt win the World Cup every year, Trout isnt a worse player because his team cant make the playoffs, Domick Hasek isnt a worse goalie because the Sabers couldnt score more during the years he was there, a QB isnt worse because a kicker misses afield goal and so on.
The closest weve seen in major professional team sports for a single player carrying a team is Lebron and the NBA is the one thats most likely to have it happen. Even he didnt win championships until he got help. Aside from that whether its the NFL, MLB, NHL, Soccer a single player cannot just put the team on their back. They can have a positive or negative effect on other players but Washington isnt winning the Super Bowl last year even if Maholmes was their QB.
Rings dont make you great and lack of rings dont make you not as good
@erikthredd said: Give me three names from that era and I'll spend some time reading into them.
Probably at the top of the list:
Otto Graham.
Bobby Layne.
Norm Van Brocklin.
Y.A. Tittle.
Johnny Unitas.
Others you might also know:
Bart Starr.
Milt Plum.
Sammy Baugh.
Earl Morrall.
John Brodie.
Those are the ones that come to mind. Like I said, these players helped usher in a new look which effectively changed the game from the "three yards and a cloud of dust" era to a passing league.
@Basebal21 I'm fully aware of all of the arguments for & against for counting playoff success so honestly you don't need to keep going here. I count it, you don't...
@Maywood I'm familiar with with that first grouping and a few in the 2nd. Thanks for the recommendations.
Yeah I do too lol.
I'll post this for the third time tonight seeing that you must have glossed over it twice already. That's the rub though, when you're an NFL QB if you want to be considered with the greats then you better have some type of playoff resume that can go with the career regular season stats.
Comments
You shouldnt even need to have a playoff resume. You can be a great player on a bad team like Mike Trout, You can also have a good playoff resume like Rivers does have and not ever win it all. Petyton Manning was carried to his 2nd superbowl win, Dilfer won one, Wentz, won one, Flacco won one and so on.
Its a team game, a single person cannot carry a team to winning it all, a team can carry a player though. You can be a great like a Marino. Theres countless players in the NFL, MLB, and NHL that were the best whose teams didnt win that year
What do you want me to say? QBs are held to a high standard these days and you need to win before teams decide to move on from you. Look at Cousins and possibly Dak a year from now, they've both put up good stats over their careers but have given you close to nothing come playoff time.
Imo,these days you need to factor in those stats and playoff wins to be put into that greats category. You can disagree,that's fine and there's really no need to go on with this discourse any longer.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Holding players to a high standard is fine, just not an unreasonable one of a single player being expected to put a team on their back. Eli isnt a better QB because Samuel dropped that game ending INTin the Superbowl, Allen isnt a worse QB because Diggs dropped what would have likely been a game winning catch, Purdy isnt a better QB because the Lions had an INT literally bounce off their face for a TD. Messi and Ranoldo arent worse players because they didnt win the World Cup every year, Trout isnt a worse player because his team cant make the playoffs, Domick Hasek isnt a worse goalie because the Sabers couldnt score more during the years he was there, a QB isnt worse because a kicker misses afield goal and so on.
The closest weve seen in major professional team sports for a single player carrying a team is Lebron and the NBA is the one thats most likely to have it happen. Even he didnt win championships until he got help. Aside from that whether its the NFL, MLB, NHL, Soccer a single player cannot just put the team on their back. They can have a positive or negative effect on other players but Washington isnt winning the Super Bowl last year even if Maholmes was their QB.
Rings dont make you great and lack of rings dont make you not as good
@erikthredd said: Give me three names from that era and I'll spend some time reading into them.
Probably at the top of the list:
Otto Graham.
Bobby Layne.
Norm Van Brocklin.
Y.A. Tittle.
Johnny Unitas.
Others you might also know:
Bart Starr.
Milt Plum.
Sammy Baugh.
Earl Morrall.
John Brodie.
Those are the ones that come to mind. Like I said, these players helped usher in a new look which effectively changed the game from the "three yards and a cloud of dust" era to a passing league.
@Basebal21 I'm fully aware of all of the arguments for & against for counting playoff success so honestly you don't need to keep going here. I count it, you don't...
@Maywood I'm familiar with with that first grouping and a few in the 2nd. Thanks for the recommendations.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I count players careers in totality
Yeah I do too lol.
I'll post this for the third time tonight seeing that you must have glossed over it twice already. That's the rub though, when you're an NFL QB if you want to be considered with the greats then you better have some type of playoff resume that can go with the career regular season stats.
Let. It. Go. 😎
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Again playoff resume doesnt mean wins and a single person cant lead a team to the playoffs