Should Anthony Stolarz ( from New Jersey ) win the Vezina this year ?
4Boston
Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
He’s played 24 games for Florida but has a
dominant GAA over everyone else and a huge lead in save percentage also.
His save percentage at .925 is better then greats like Hasek, Dryden, and Plante who lifetime are in the .920-.922 range.
He is dominant this year.
But because Bobrovsky is so good he saw little playing time early.
Should he get the Vezina ?
0
Comments
This reminds me of 1970 when an over 40 Jacques Plante destroyed the league and a young Bernie Parent on an average Leafs team.
Not enough games to get my vote. I know there’s no official limit, but I’d think you’d have to play 2/3 or more of your team’s games to really get consideration.
Jim
You hit the nail on the head.
The Vezina goes to the best goalie in the league. He’s been it.
Do the voters feel he should be punished because Bobrovsky is so good that he didn’t get time.
It would be like platooning 1B men in baseball. In 120 games a guy hit .330 with 30 HRs and in 60 games a guy hit .355 with 20 HRs.
Who gets league MVP ?
Ugh, I hate this question. It’s never “who’s most valuable to his team” in the NHL. If it was, I could give you an answer of Sidney Crosby, especially given the Pens run in the past 7 games to get back in the playoff picture when they were all but dead and buried, and his performance along the way with little support. But I know that’s not gonna happen (and I’m a homer
).
Kutcherov as the pts leader would traditionally have a strong case, but TB isn’t the top of the standings this year and there’s little separation between him and my prediction… Nathan MacKinnon - ton of points and Colorado’s near the top of the league.
Jim
MacKinnon has to get MVP this year.
There really is no other option even though others have played very well.
With 26 games played? Absolutely not. Hellebuyck will, and should, win it.
Your definition of "best" appears to rely solely on two rate stats, and to not rely in any way whatsoever on how many games the goalie plays. Would a mid-season call-up who got a shutout in his one and only appearance be the "best" goalie in the NHL? Obviously not, but based on what you've posted your answer would be "yes". In other words, I think you need to address the small number of games played by Stolarz in some way other than conceding he's not as good as Bobrovsky (he's not as good as Bobrovsky, so that pretty much ends the debate, but anyway).
The "best" goalie - at least as I see common sense dictating - is the one who helped his team the most. Stolarz has not helped his team as much - not nearly as much - in his 26 games as Bobrovsky or Hellebuyck (who clearly should win the Vezina this year), or lots of other goalies have helped their teams in twice as many or more games. Let Hellebuyck play once a week, against weaker opponents as backups generally do, and his rate stats would almost certainly improve. But he'd be a whole lot less valuable to his team.
Helleybuck probably will win the Vezina, but consider that Stolarz has a similar WAR to a great goalie this year who has twice as much ice time. Plus a better WAR then Boston’s dynamic duo.
His goals saved above expected, the most indicative stat of exceptional goaltending not only favors him, but no one is even close in the top 5 goalies this year.
He simply has been Domink Hasek like this year and everyone knows it.
Helleybuck has clearly not been as great as he has.
So the kid from Colorado wins the Vezina because he helped his team win the most which is how you see it.
Helleybuck didn’t help his team win as much as he did.
Or Bobrovsky wins it because he has as many wins as Helleybuck even though he’s played two less games .
Anthony Stolarz is not a mid season call up, so your comments pertaining to that scenario are silly and void.
Bobrovsky and Helleybuck have the same GAA and Stolarz blows them both away.
He’s the best NHL goaltender this year for anyone who has seen his remarkable play.
Who was a better goal scorer ?
Lemieux or Gretzky?
Gretzky had more career goals.
Lemieux a much much better gpg.
Not even close btw.
Gretzky himself said Mario was the better goal scorer.
What say you ?
And one final question.
Look at these numbers and tell me that Tony Esposito was the best goalie in the NHL in 1970 because he won the most for his team.
Mind you that Cheevers and Johnston on the Bruins are both right behind him, and the greatest in the league that year playing for an average Leafs team doesn’t have as many wins as all of them.
Plante was doing all this above the age of 40, and I would love to hear you say in front of Bernie Parent and Fast Eddie that Tony O was the best goalie in 1970.
FYI- Plante wasn’t a mid season call up. He shared time with Bernie Parent. Last n this list.
I don't know if all of these posts were directed at me. If they were, since they didn't address my comment I don't know where to go from here. Hellebuyck deserves the Vezina and Hellebuyck will win the Vezina. Hellebuyck is the best goalie in the NHL this year. Nothing you posted begins to dispute that point, so I know at some level at least you know it's true. Far be it for me to stop anyone for arguing for the sake of arguing, but the argument has to at least be plausible before I'll play, and the argument for Stolarz isn't plausible.
Thanks for dropping out of the conversation.
Being that you are the person who once said Orr was not a great defensive defenseman you’ve made the correct decision.
I pointed out many things that indicate that Stolarz has been the most dominant goalie in the NHL this year but because of your inability to understand them we are at an impasse.
4Boston, by your own admission Stolarz isn't even the best goalie on his team:
"Bobrovsky is so good he saw little playing time early".
"Bobrovsky is so good that he didn’t get time"
Therefore, your entire assertion that he should win the award for best goalie in the NHL is nonsensical.
FYI, he basically started 4 games a month from November - March, so I am not sure there is any merit to saying he "saw little playing time early". What you really meant, is he played once a week to give their top goalie plenty of rest.
Having great stats playing once a week and starting less than 30% of your teams games is not particularly impressive. It certainly is not sufficient to receive any sort of award as a part time player.
Robb
On the one hand, I'm always honored to have a stalker. On the other hand, I'm a lot more honored when my stalkers are more intelligent than pocket lint. I'm not going to go back and find exactly what I said about Orr all those years ago, but since you apparently have my posts catalogued somewhere I'm sure you can find it. But I do know that I never said Orr wasn't a great defensive defenseman. What I said, IIRC, was in the context of a GOAT conversation and that Orr, as great as he was, was not on my list of candidates for GOAT defensive defensemen. And I stand by that, whether you can understand what I'm saying or not. I did, by the way, argue that Orr was the GOAT hockey player, which is a rather important part of my argument for you to have missed. The GOAT doesn't have to be the GOAT at every single aspect of the game, but he does need to be great at all of them.
And @fergie23 nailed it; your OWN argument includes the fact that Bobrovsky is better than Stolarz. How you moved on from that fact - on which everyone who watches and understands hockey agrees - to the argument that Stolarz was better than Bobrovsky, let alone Hellebuyck, is why nobody else is even attempting to discuss this with you. What you've said is, to borrow fergie's word, nonsensical.
Both Fergie and Dallas have seen so little sports in their life because they don’t understand how a backup could ever come in and play better then a starter.
I won’t waste my time giving them plenty of examples from not only NHL goaltenders, but NFL quarterbacks also.
Oh yeah, even the New England fans on this board will remember how 3 time Pro Bowler Drew Bledsoe was so good that a kid named Tom Brady didn’t see playing time.
Joe Banzai has at least collegiate level NHL knowledge.
Some others here have high school level.
I suggest you two elementary school level thinkers go play on the see saw and swings.
And yes Dallas, you saying that Orr was not the greatest defensive defenseman in NHL history has everyone giggling at your profound nhl illiteracy.
Scotty Bowman instructed his excellent Montreal teams to not even skate the puck down Orr’s side of the ice.
They were instructed to skate it down the other guys lane or dump it into the other guys lane.
Your see saw awaits you.
However if you’re willing, which I am sure you are not, please explain how Orr wasn’t the greatest defensive defenseman ever. That will give plenty of people here the amusement of watching your analysis get shredded to pieces by yours truly.