Scrapbook Paper and Glue

Ki11EmA11

Are there reputable people that take scrapbook paper and glue off of older cards, like 1952's? Also, will PSA grade them just like the other cards, and not say altered or something else on them? TYIA

RufussCkingston

probably more an issue of it grading very low due to paper loss rather than being seen as altered

Ki11EmA11

I actually put a common under water for like 5-10 minutes, and it all actually came off, it's pressed and drying now. But would like a professional to do👍🏻

Bosox1976

There’s a guy on Facebook called gone with the stain

Ki11EmA11

@Bosox1976 said:
There’s a guy on Facebook called gone with the stain

Yeah, I contacted him yesterday, will talk with him today.

craig44

you are getting into very murky waters here...

bgr

"Gone with the Stain"

I'll give that a GEM MT 10 on the name.

AANV

@Ki11EmA11 said:
I actually put a common under water for like 5-10 minutes, and it all actually came off, it's pressed and drying now. But would like a professional to do👍🏻

"pressed and drying"

Seems like you know more about this methodology than you've led on.

craig44

to the original question, no, there is not a "reputable" way to doctor a card. they are always dishonest. and yes, soaking, drying and pressing is doctoring cards

Ki11EmA11

@craig44 said:
to the original question, no, there is not a "reputable" way to doctor a card. they are always dishonest. and yes, soaking, drying and pressing is doctoring cards

So taking off what someone put on the card 60 years ago is " doctoring ". Really asking this question, not be a di€k.

Ki11EmA11

@AANV said:

@Ki11EmA11 said:
I actually put a common under water for like 5-10 minutes, and it all actually came off, it's pressed and drying now. But would like a professional to do👍🏻

"pressed and drying"

Seems like you know more about this methodology than you've led on.

Well I knew the basics, but apparently there is no water used in his " undoctoring " of cards.

ElMagoStrikeZone

You have asked about the interpretation by a grading company such as PSA, and no, they should not grade them like the "other" cards as has always been their policy, particularly if it's rather obvious they've been reconditioned.

craig44

@Ki11EmA11 said:

@craig44 said:
to the original question, no, there is not a "reputable" way to doctor a card. they are always dishonest. and yes, soaking, drying and pressing is doctoring cards

So taking off what someone put on the card 60 years ago is " doctoring ". Really asking this question, not be a di€k.

of course it is. everything that happens to a card once it is out of the pack is part of the cards "history" that is, it decreases the grade. that could be corner wear, creasing, fading, pinholes, edge damage, ink marks and yes, glue.

when you are getting rid of damage on a card, you are "doctoring" the card. you are artificially improving the condition.

there could be different reasons one would do that, but highest on that list is to make the card more valuable.

RufussCkingston

Let's talk about 1986 Fleer Basketball Stickers then!> @craig44 said:

@Ki11EmA11 said:

@craig44 said:
to the original question, no, there is not a "reputable" way to doctor a card. they are always dishonest. and yes, soaking, drying and pressing is doctoring cards

So taking off what someone put on the card 60 years ago is " doctoring ". Really asking this question, not be a di€k.

of course it is. everything that happens to a card once it is out of the pack is part of the cards "history" that is, it decreases the grade. that could be corner wear, creasing, fading, pinholes, edge damage, ink marks and yes, glue.

when you are getting rid of damage on a card, you are "doctoring" the card. you are artificially improving the condition.

there could be different reasons one would do that, but highest on that list is to make the card more valuable.

Let's talk about 1986 Fleer Basketball Stickers then!

Ki11EmA11

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
You have asked about the interpretation by a grading company such as PSA, and no, they should not grade them like the "other" cards as has always been their policy, particularly if it's rather obvious they've been reconditioned.

So I should just deal with the glue, and the scrapbook paper on the back, or hope for a bump up if it is reconditioned? I mean one is a mantle, and a couple Jackie's.

Ki11EmA11

So basically the consensus is to not have them changed and leave the glue and the paper on the back, even though the fronts are basically a 8-9?

RonSportscards

Ever since that video of the the guy giving a shout out to Kurt's Card Care while still at the PSA offices just after receiving a PSA 10 on his 1/1 Wembenyama card, the topic of "cleaning" has been the hot topic.
Add to that, some of the top influencers have been saying that they don't see an issue with "cleaning."
It's been reported that dealers are openly "cleaning" cards at card shows.
Lessons in trimming.
Counterfeit PSA cases.
Undetectable cleaning/altering.
Who knows what your getting nowadays, even when it's slabbed.

Ki11EmA11

I can understand trimming and other ways , but the only difference in these cards is the removing of the glue and paper that was put on 60 years ago.

bgr

He's just saying it like it is. Gluing them into the scrapbook altered the cards. Removing the glue by some means is altering them again. Even if you're just restoring it to the original condition.. so to speak. Like the ethics proverb... two wrongs don't make a right... this ship sailed when they were glued onto the paper.

As for the Mantle and Jackies etc. I would think that restoring them and disclosing they are altered specific to what was done may produce the highest legitimate value for those particular cards. vs. paper loss or other simply removing them. The glue likely added cellulose to the card and that extra cellulose is going to yellow at a different rate than areas of the card without added cellulose over time. This is why cleaned stains come back over time.

It sounds like a cool scrapbook and I would love to see pictures.

craig44

@Ki11EmA11 said:
I can understand trimming and other ways , but the only difference in these cards is the removing of the glue and paper that was put on 60 years ago.

what is the difference between soaking and removing glue residue that was done to the card 60 years ago and removing a crease that was done to the card 60 years ago? or fixing corners that were rounded 60 years ago?

those 2 card examples were probably at least near mint out of the pack, but damage happened to them long ago as well

it is unethical. If you want a nice card, buy one dont create one.

craig44

@Ki11EmA11 said:

@ElMagoStrikeZone said:
You have asked about the interpretation by a grading company such as PSA, and no, they should not grade them like the "other" cards as has always been their policy, particularly if it's rather obvious they've been reconditioned.

So I should just deal with the glue, and the scrapbook paper on the back, or hope for a bump up if it is reconditioned? I mean one is a mantle, and a couple Jackie's.

yes. deal with the glue. if you want a nicer copy, buy one. dont create one. it is unethical

craig44

@RufussCkingston said:
Let's talk about 1986 Fleer Basketball Stickers then!> @craig44 said:

@Ki11EmA11 said:

@craig44 said:
to the original question, no, there is not a "reputable" way to doctor a card. they are always dishonest. and yes, soaking, drying and pressing is doctoring cards

So taking off what someone put on the card 60 years ago is " doctoring ". Really asking this question, not be a di€k.

of course it is. everything that happens to a card once it is out of the pack is part of the cards "history" that is, it decreases the grade. that could be corner wear, creasing, fading, pinholes, edge damage, ink marks and yes, glue.

when you are getting rid of damage on a card, you are "doctoring" the card. you are artificially improving the condition.

there could be different reasons one would do that, but highest on that list is to make the card more valuable.

Let's talk about 1986 Fleer Basketball Stickers then!

what about 86 fleer stickers? you mean removing wax?

RufussCkingston

@craig44 said:

what about 86 fleer stickers? you mean removing wax?

Yep, removing the pack "glue" (wax) from the card.

stevek

Are you sure these are original cards from 1952, and not reprints?

Reprints have been around a long time now. It could be possible that a young card collecting kid say in the 1990's or whenever, got a reprint set and glued the cards into a scrapbook.

Why not post a close-up pic of the Mantle, and maybe you'll receive some opinions about it. Post the Robinson as well. Perhaps some assorted pics of the scrapbook.

Ki11EmA11

.

bgr

Unless you manipulated the image to add some smoothing filter or similar that mantle is fake. You can tell from the printing. Here is a closeup of a 53.

Ki11EmA11

@bgr said:
Unless you manipulated the image to add some smoothing filter or similar that mantle is fake. You can tell from the printing. Here is a closeup of a 53.

Here is a close up

bgr

I stand corrected on the print. Thanks.

Ki11EmA11

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georgebailey2

I am not sure I am an absolutist regarding something attached to the card like glue or wax. I think those are distinctly different than a crease, wrinkle, ding, writing, pinhole or paper loss.

If you're eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich too close to a card (particularly a modern card) and drip some jelly or smudge some peanut butter on it, are you not allowed to try and wipe it off before it dries or stains?

AANV

Let's see the backs

Ki11EmA11

👍🏻

Ki11EmA11

👍🏻

Ki11EmA11

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stevek

One thing always possible, I call it a "scrapbook scam" and I've seen this a number of times before. Could be an antique store, flea market, or anywhere, old scrapbooks aren't that hard to find. But what a scammer does is he takes the old scrapbook, which has the usual glued in newspaper clippings, postcards, old photos, and other worthless stuff which only had sentimental value to the owner, and he strategically glues in some reprints of vintage cards.

So a mark opening up the scrapbook, and thumbing thru it, sees the "vintage" cards in there. potentially worth tens of thousands of dollars, asks the seller how much is the price. The seller tells him say $100 or whatever, and the mark can't pull money out of his wallet fast enough to pay the seller and take home the scrapbook.

Of course sometime later, the mark finds out that the cards are as worthless as the rest of the scrapbook, and possibly doesn't even realize he's been scammed.

craig44

@georgebailey2 said:
I am not sure I am an absolutist regarding something attached to the card like glue or wax. I think those are distinctly different than a crease, wrinkle, ding, writing, pinhole or paper loss.

If you're eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich too close to a card (particularly a modern card) and drip some jelly or smudge some peanut butter on it, are you not allowed to try and wipe it off before it dries or stains?

another scenario: I am quickly putting cards into toploaders and mistakenly catch the edge of one which results in a crease in the card. Is it acceptable to send it to Kurt (or other card drs) to have that crease removed?

Ki11EmA11

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bgr

I’m eating a sloppy pb&j over a bunch of vintage as we speak. Wish me luck.

georgebailey2

@bgr said:
I’m eating a sloppy pb&j over a bunch of vintage as we speak. Wish me luck.

Heh-heh.

Well, you get the gist.

georgebailey2

@craig44 said:

@georgebailey2 said:
I am not sure I am an absolutist regarding something attached to the card like glue or wax. I think those are distinctly different than a crease, wrinkle, ding, writing, pinhole or paper loss.

If you're eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich too close to a card (particularly a modern card) and drip some jelly or smudge some peanut butter on it, are you not allowed to try and wipe it off before it dries or stains?

another scenario: I am quickly putting cards into toploaders and mistakenly catch the edge of one which results in a crease in the card. Is it acceptable to send it to Kurt (or other card drs) to have that crease removed?

Are you asking me that question? If so, I already answered it.

Now, granted, the pb&j example is a bit silly, but you get the gist. It could be any liquid.

And to clarify, if it stains, that's direct damage to the card just like a crease, and you would be sol.

Groo

@stevek said:
One thing always possible, I call it a "scrapbook scam" and I've seen this a number of times before. Could be an antique store, flea market, or anywhere, old scrapbooks aren't that hard to find. But what a scammer does is he takes the old scrapbook, which has the usual glued in newspaper clippings, postcards, old photos, and other worthless stuff which only had sentimental value to the owner, and he strategically glues in some reprints of vintage cards.

So a mark opening up the scrapbook, and thumbing thru it, sees the "vintage" cards in there. potentially worth tens of thousands of dollars, asks the seller how much is the price. The seller tells him say $100 or whatever, and the mark can't pull money out of his wallet fast enough to pay the seller and take home the scrapbook.

Of course sometime later, the mark finds out that the cards are as worthless as the rest of the scrapbook, and possibly doesn't even realize he's been scammed.

All good cons prey on the greed of the mark.