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MHCC Auction Fraudulent Cello Packs…
mintonlypls
Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
It has been discovered that three (3) cello packs in the MHCC auction are fraudulent: 1963 Topps cello pack w/Yaz on top, 1974 Topps w/Ryan, and 1976 Topps w/Ryan have pulled from the auction as it has been determined the packs are fakes. I was leading on the 1963 pack at $5200+. Tread carefully!
mint_only_pls
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Were these graded?
Yes…authenticated and slabbed by PSA. I received word of the fakes yesterday since I was leading…
Wonder how this happened - Steve grades for PSA - did he come forth and say he made an error or did another expert Mike High trusts tell them they were fake? If so who is the expert and how do we get their opinion on things in the future?
Kudos to Mile High for pulling them but I hope more info comes out.
Aren’t there bad graded cello packs in the hobby from that scammer 5-7 years ago? I remember it was a huge deal.
holy cow, terrible news. I am glad it was discovered before you won.
does anyone know when those packs were graded?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Mistakes happen. Steve doesn’t have to say he made a mistake. We know he did. He slabbed them.
Someone else may have provided information.
The Yaz cello had a serial # beginning w/1xxxxxxx…so early graded packs
Agree mistakes happen if it is Steve’s opinion that they are fake he is saying he made a mistake - he said it was good now he is saying it is not. He doesn’t have to make a press release that he changed his mind. If it is someone else, interested to know who Mile High is trusting.
It would be interesting to know how the recognition happened. Someone tipped off Mile High or did Steve and/or PSA do so?
These are the Jose packs, one guy got a bunch of them past PSA with stars on top.
And while I agree Steve won’t catch everything, these are apparently out of sequence and should have been caught (which is how they were identified as fakes post grading).
I think the most of those packs were done by one person. He was very brazen about posting about it, I think on BO or net54.
They may know the packs by the serial numbers? I think the scam subbed the packs himself.
i was going all in on the 74 and 76 cello with ryan on top , and of course it caused me to be cautious on my bids for bbce and for collect auctions, and of corse I ended up with nothing because MHCC pulled those cellos
I am aware of the Jose stuff - if the serial numbers are known then the certs should be flagged for the whole list - PSA should not wait until someone tries to sell them. In a private sale someone would then be duped. I hope they don’t know the serial numbers and are being passive, to me that would be negligent.
where these are PSA graded/authenticated, will the owner of the packs now be reimbursed for the current market value per the PSA guarantee?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It would be interesting to know how it was suddenly determined after all these years, that these unopened packs were fraudulent. Although some have stated that they were previously aware of the "Jose" packs.
I've never bought an "expensive" unopened pack, but I have seriously pondered the idea.
Just a total guess. Was a black light shined on the slab which indicated resealing? Did the glue used to reseal the packs, over the years change in consistency such as hardening or even loosening differently than a genuine Topps pack? Whereby when the fraudulent pack was newly resealed, it couldn't be detected with a black light but now it can?
It's been stated that Steve made a mistake. Based on many posts here about Steve over the years, I do believe that he is an honest guy. That being said, authenticating a sealed pack isn't exactly brain surgery. Seems to me that the "mistake" must have been made from lack of knowledge at the time about deceptive resealing techniques. So it would be interesting to know what Steve learned from his mistake. I say that not to admonish Steve, but so we can all learn more about unopened packs and their authenticity.
I keep buying from and submitting to BBCE, but Steve is a total bozo. If you think he isn't then I bet you've never spoken to him. Bozo!
How much did it sale for is one of the funniest and most ignorant things I've ever heard.
bgr
More foolish comments out of your mouth.
Did the Jose packs go back to 1960s? I thought they were all from the 70s but could be wrong.
Also - clear plastic has been around for a long time. If it is now determined that the plastic itself is not the same as what was used by Topps. I'd like to know how to possibly differentiate that, and why Steve wasn't aware of that at the time. Did that plastic age differently than the Topps plastic?
A plastic sealing machine isn't all that expensive to buy and use. Frankly, it's child's play to learn how to do it. So what should we be looking out for with fraudulently sealed cello packs?
FWIW…a 1963 Topps Cello Pack in a recent Heritage Auction exhibited slight yellowing/toning of the plastic wrapper whereas the 1963 Topps Yaz Cello Pack did not have yellowing/toning with age. Of course…the Yaz cello isn’t 61 years old.
I heard a rumor that BBCE won't authenticate 1963 cellos anymore.
Anyone know if that's true?
I thought the packs were determined fake due to being out of sequence top card to bottom. Which is why they can be identified now. Happy to be corrected but that is how I remember it.
That's a great question Craig and something I've thought about. Many of these fake packs are one-of-a-kind items that don't have any comps. How would market value even be determined?
Prove it. Haha.
Are the sloppy joes really as good as they say they are at Willow Run? Asking for a friend.
What's concerning is, will there be more surfacing as time goes by. Or undetected due to private sales. Out of a watchful market eye.
Just open everything! Problem solved!
Yes, but not after ya just paid say 5k for an unopened pack, and while busting it find out that it's fraudulent. 😒
Don’t need to prove it, you do a good job of doing that yourself every time you make a comment.
Cool Story Bro.
If you ever get past the ad-hom and decide you're going to try to reason out a point... I'll be waiting. Now that I know who I'm actually talking to I can see behind the facade.
OK. There seems to be some drama brewing but I have no idea what it is about!
Carry on.
If you ever made a comment that wasn’t putting someone, something or another’s idea down then maybe I would but your really just someone who thinks they’re really witty and smart but isn’t.
Yeah, much like name812.. he’s another douche bag here..
Must be the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm really just an idiot who thinks they're very intelligent.
However. I offer no opinion on my self. If you have a particular comment you take issue with let's pick it apart. I do make mistakes and I take pride in owning them.
I don't like Steve Hart, and I don't think he knows what he's doing. I think he has fumbled his way through business with some empirical data and when he makes big mistakes he's as surprised as anyone. The 3 incredibly negative experiences I have had with him with products he verified and put his stamp on were enough for me to form this opinion. I'm sure he does a better job than I would at examining unopened product, but he doesn't say that he's 25%,50%,75% sure... He puts his stamp on it. Aside from FASC I worry about anything BBCE wrapped.
Name812 sounds like an awesome person.
Most unopened is searched and he makes too many mistakes. Wouldn't waste my money.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
great news, should keep prices lower for the rest of us. keep it up everyone. thanks
Don’t disagree with you
Screw both of you.
The 63 Yaz and 74 Ryan cellos were correctly collated. The 76 Ryan was not standard with Ryan on top but there is a known anomaly with the presence of traded cards whereby cards from the no asterisk sheets are found on top of 76 cellos. Fritsch has had boxes of them.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The 76 Ryan was not standard with Ryan on top but there is a known anomaly with the presence of traded cards whereby cards from the no asterisk sheets are found on top of 76 cellos. Fritsch has had boxes of them.
hey ya grote...
Pretty Cool on the No asterisk's there...
Hahahahahah..